Making a zero default time in all leagues!

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matt_ward
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Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by matt_ward » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:13 pm

Hello all, I do apologize if this has been previously mentioned although I did look and could not find anything. I would just like to know if fide chess laws have a zero default time why on earth do the ECF Chess Federation not take it up too for local league matches if they have not done so already.

I realize their will be mixed views on this of course; but I personally find it very disruptive and arrogant to turn up late whatever the time or whatever the reason unless under exception circumstances. It has appeared to my knowledge to have happened to me on heaps of occasions and I don't think it should be allowed it is not good for the game of chess.

The reason for me saying this is the following:

1. most chess clubs are rented out and therefore have a fixed time for finishing all the matches on the night whether it is a adjournment or quickplay finish.

2. Everything gets delayed and the opponent waiting for the opposition who's late might be on a tight schedule.

3. Why do people play a evening match if they know they will be late or their is a chance of a late arrival.

4. I Find it disrupts the other matches or events taking place and it is just pure ignorance.

And also if fide have introduced this rule I do not see what is stopping the ECF from implementing this rule. Especially for tournaments as well where people are paying too play in it or perhaps paying to spectate it gives chess a atrocious reputation.

Kind Regards Matt. :D :) :) :)

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Rob Thompson
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by Rob Thompson » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:35 pm

1 and 2 are dealt with by promptly starting clocks, defaults are totally unnecessary. 3 is a personal choice, and nothing the should be legislated for. 4 is not a large problem, and is vastly outweighed by the incredibly huge amount of negatives that would come from this law, were it to be enforced (which would actually be impossible)
True glory lies in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read.

Mike Truran
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:48 pm

Matt, it would probably help if you took the trouble to read what the FIDE rule actually says as opposed to what you think it says. Go to section 6.6(a) of the laws of chess in the FIDE handbook.

LozCooper

Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by LozCooper » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:02 pm

matt_ward wrote:Hello all, I do apologize if this has been previously mentioned although I did look and could not find anything. I would just like to know if fide chess laws have a zero default time why on earth do the ECF Chess Federation not take it up too for local league matches if they have not done so already.

I realize their will be mixed views on this of course; but I personally find it very disruptive and arrogant to turn up late whatever the time or whatever the reason unless under exception circumstances. It has appeared to my knowledge to have happened to me on heaps of occasions and I don't think it should be allowed it is not good for the game of chess.

The reason for me saying this is the following:

1. most chess clubs are rented out and therefore have a fixed time for finishing all the matches on the night whether it is a adjournment or quickplay finish.

2. Everything gets delayed and the opponent waiting for the opposition who's late might be on a tight schedule.

3. Why do people play a evening match if they know they will be late or their is a chance of a late arrival.

4. I Find it disrupts the other matches or events taking place and it is just pure ignorance.

And also if fide have introduced this rule I do not see what is stopping the ECF from implementing this rule. Especially for tournaments as well where people are paying too play in it or perhaps paying to spectate it gives chess a atrocious reputation.

Kind Regards Matt. :D :) :) :)

I'm fairly confident a forum poll would be in favour of not extending the zero default laws to all events in England

matt_ward
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by matt_ward » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:10 pm

Rob and Mike would you care to explain yourselfs?

To why this rule should not be enforced I can't see how it can be bad personally am I missing the point.


Matt.

matt_ward
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by matt_ward » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:11 pm

Rob point 3 is not really a personal choice, it is more a matter of fact.

Alan Walton
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by Alan Walton » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:17 pm

Matt

Because the rule 6.6a quotes this

6.6 a.
Any player who arrives at the chessboard after the start of the session shall lose the game. Thus the default time is 0 minutes. The rules of a competition may specify otherwise.

So this says that individual competitions can decide their own default times, and not have 0

matt_ward
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by matt_ward » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:45 pm

Yes I respect that rule, but only the first part. I don't understand why other competitions should be different why do you think they should.

The 4ncl have got 6.6a rule and this seems to work fine. Therefore why should it not be introduced across the whole of England.

Matt.

Mike Truran
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:49 pm

1. Competitions can choose their own default times.

2. The 4NCL has a one hour default time.

Which bit of this is proving so hard to understand?

Ian Thompson
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:50 pm

matt_ward wrote:The 4ncl have got 6.6a rule and this seems to work fine. Therefore why should it not be introduced across the whole of England.
Because many people think that the 4NCL's default time is longer than needed for an evening league, or a congress, and are happy with 30 minutes instead.

Alan Walton
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by Alan Walton » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:58 pm

Matt,

The zero default time has only been in for a few years, whereas every other tournament has had 30 min or 1 hours default times as standard.

I think at FIDE run tournaments there has been more unusual situations arising having the zero default time, than that with the standard 30 min or 1 hour

I presume you have never played in a tournament with a zero default time (I haven't in my 25 years of chess), so it seems a bit strange that you can really comment on this unless you have experienced both situations

matt_ward
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by matt_ward » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:08 pm

Ian if thats the case why don't they scrap it. If the opponent is not there ready for their game so what.

It would be up too them to turn up on time if they know they're playing I can't see any argument for abolishing the default time atall. Or at least make it 5 or 10 minute default.

An hour for the 4ncl default is ridiculous, why does it need to be so long.

Matt.

matt_ward
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by matt_ward » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:12 pm

Mike None of it is proving to be hard to comprehend, I find your attitude somewhat offensive, I was simply making a point that I believe there should be no default time or at least it should be limited to 5 or 10 minutes.

It is absurd that people can turn up late like 15 or more minutes, late I know their is some people that would agree.

I won't take your comments to heart Mike, but I am finding you rather objective against me and my views. Not too sure what I've done.

Matt.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:19 pm

matt_ward wrote:I am finding you rather objective against me.
Matt,

I think 95% or more of the forumites would find Mike Truran to be objective against you!

Regards,
Paul.

LozCooper

Re: Making a zero default time in all leagues!

Post by LozCooper » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:27 pm

matt_ward wrote:Mike None of it is proving to be hard to comprehend, I find your attitude somewhat offensive, I was simply making a point that I believe there should be no default time or at least it should be limited to 5 or 10 minutes.

It is absurd that people can turn up late like 15 or more minutes, late I know their is some people that would agree.

I won't take your comments to heart Mike, but I am finding you rather objective against me and my views. Not too sure what I've done.

Matt.
Matt,

I'm sure your question was well meant but when you start using terms as disruptive, arrogant and ignorant it seems somewhat contradictory to then call another person's views offensive.

Whilst the zero default rule may seem logical to you this feeling is not shared by many people, especially those who have experienced it, myself included. There may be some logic for a world champion match where a big sponsor is present to have two players seated at the board at start of play. However to default any player who was 1 second late for a local league game or Friday night weekend tournament game because he was delayed at work, stuck in traffic or had a puncture etc does not seem sensible to me.

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