Behaviour of players and sanctions

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Joey Stewart
Posts: 1223
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: All Of Them
Contact:

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by Joey Stewart » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:06 pm

In most cases, when somebody falls out with a club one of the offenders simply leave and the issues end there.
I dont approve of 'sanctions' unless it is some sort of extreme case - after all, many chess players can have outlandish views and if we were to keep disciplining them for anything that was considered to be against the grain then the community would shrink and shrink.

You do get some players who open their mouths far too loudly, and if they are likely to cause a long term problem within your club or league, then it is best to get them early with a quiet word about how they need to tone it down and if they still refuse to cooperate then more strict penalties should be considered - take care, however, to make sure that the rest of your club know the situation so they are not able to engineer a mutiny with a cohort of link minded individuals.
Its also worth pointing out that if one person says something that cold be considered controversial and lots of people agree with him (or her) then it may well be you yourself who is in the wrong to accuse them.

Mostly it comes down to who is managing in those situations - most chess organisers are good level headed people who are not quick to jump to conclusions and prefer to gather all the evidence before making any sort of case against one side or another. Of course, there are the odd few who crave nothing more than the power over their fellow players (often a power they are unable to produce over the board, I have noticed) and like to run things 'their way' - being in clubs run by those types generally entails agreeing with whatever they say and not trying to contradict or oppose them, lest you fall foul of come ancient rule in the clubs constitution that only they know and have access to.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

User avatar
Carl Hibbard
Posts: 5863
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:05 pm
Location: Evesham

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:11 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:I have started this thread because the other one is becoming personal and serves no purpose.
You have somebody in mind on the forum then Ernie?
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Steve Henderson
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:32 pm
Location: Redcar
Contact:

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by Steve Henderson » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:34 am

Ernie Lazenby wrote:
In Cleveland several years ago two of our officials were advised to take legal action against an individual who called them corrupt on a forum and at that time the association had no means of dealing with such individuals.
Yes I remember this and If I am not mistaken it was you who goaded that person and pressed them on the matter.

Anyway, old stuff that, what about the most recent stuff with you and Charles W Wood - do you remember dear sir?
Ernie Lazenby wrote: Free speech is important to me but with it I accept the responsibilty that goes with such priviledge and that is to conduct myself in an acceptable manner in my dealings with other people.
I think a few people at the June AGM might have a different view.

Ernie Lazenby wrote: Does anyone actually believe these forums should be a free for all where anything goes without fear of remedial action. I certainly dont and while I accept when one puts ones head above the parapet by becoming an official in a organisation conflict can occurr I dont accept personal insults or personal attacks should be tolerated particularly if they are malicous and without foundation.
Over at ChessNE1 you did a fine job with the personal attacks on me and you made public parts of private conversations we had while I was in Office!

You also made a very strange post on ChessNE1
Ernie Lazenby wrote: One thing I am very good at is dropping something into a conversation to see if the recipient can be as trusted as they say to keep it to themselves. Wink Sadly there are a very tiny minority of untrustworthy individuals around. Shocked It takes time to find them out but I get there in the end. Equally there are many honourable people around who actually do what they say they are going to do and its for those I continue to do what I do for our game.
IMHO - very Disturbing stuff .

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3463
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)
Contact:

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by Paul McKeown » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:42 am

Sounds like a witch hunt to my mind, Ernie. Search your soul.

User avatar
Gareth Harley-Yeo
Posts: 307
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:58 pm
Location: Wales
Contact:

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by Gareth Harley-Yeo » Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:47 am

IMHO - If a chess player is out of line to an opponent during a game or on a club night then it can become a league matter. Anything outside of that is not the business of the league. If somebody has a personal issue with what is being said on a forum or outside of a chess club then they should take it up with that individual, and shouldn't get the league involved in something I’m sure they’d rather have no part of.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:48 am

I think that's right.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

User avatar
Gavin Strachan
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:06 am
Contact:

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by Gavin Strachan » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:07 am

If someone says something on a forum which another deems offensive then said offended person could well sue. There was a recent case of this where a person on facebook put highly offensive material on someones profile and was sued to the tune of £10k if memory serves.

If someone is out of order in a match then an arbiter can punish said person with various offences upto removal from tournament depending on what happened and repetition. This maybe harder to implement in a league match, though the extraordinary experience of a match captain pulling out a player or team as a grievance proceedure against an alleged offence would be noted by a league secretary and a player/club potentially sanctioned afterwards.

In simple terms a case of the punishment appropriately fitting the crime (if one has been proved to have taken place!).

The problem with litigation is that it can be pointless to go to civil court if the financial outcome is trivial (i.e. the person who is being sued is not particularly financially well off).

Steve Henderson
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:32 pm
Location: Redcar
Contact:

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by Steve Henderson » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:34 am

Ernie Lazenby wrote:
Steve Henderson wrote:
Ernie Lazenby wrote:
In Cleveland several years ago two of our officials were advised to take legal action against an individual who called them corrupt on a forum and at that time the association had no means of dealing with such individuals.
Yes I remember this and If I am not mistaken it was you who goaded that person and pressed them on the matter.

Anyway, old stuff that, what about the most recent stuff with you and Charles W Wood - do you remember dear sir?
Ernie Lazenby wrote: Free speech is important to me but with it I accept the responsibilty that goes with such priviledge and that is to conduct myself in an acceptable manner in my dealings with other people.
I think a few people at the June AGM might have a different view.

Ernie Lazenby wrote: Does anyone actually believe these forums should be a free for all where anything goes without fear of remedial action. I certainly dont and while I accept when one puts ones head above the parapet by becoming an official in a organisation conflict can occurr I dont accept personal insults or personal attacks should be tolerated particularly if they are malicous and without foundation.
Over at ChessNE1 you did a fine job with the personal attacks on me and you made public parts of private conversations we had while I was in Office!

You also made a very strange post on ChessNE1
Ernie Lazenby wrote: One thing I am very good at is dropping something into a conversation to see if the recipient can be as trusted as they say to keep it to themselves. Wink Sadly there are a very tiny minority of untrustworthy individuals around. Shocked It takes time to find them out but I get there in the end. Equally there are many honourable people around who actually do what they say they are going to do and its for those I continue to do what I do for our game.
IMHO - very Disturbing stuff .
There you go again telling lies. You may recall it was you in your chairmans annual report said what a considerable assest I am to the association. You said nothing against me at the AGM then 5 days later resigned after a less than 2 minute phone call.

Also re the individual who called officials corrupt you have forgotten that I contacted him privately and strongly advised him against using such language on a forum because it could lead to legal action. I did not goad him as well you know.

There is no adverse reference whatsoever by name about you by name or even by implication either before or since you resigned. It was you that named yourself.

You resigned and are now out to try and discredit me but all you are doing is bringing discredit upon yourself as demonstrated by your posts on CNE1 under the Middlesbrough congress heading, posts that have offended a number of people such they have said so on that forum. Noticeable you backed off when you found no support.

Sorry folks but I had to respond to someone who is bitter and who is trying to discredit me and has a friend helping him.
You skipped over the more pressing issues here, but never mind, that's your way.
I have no bitterness towards you, but you have towards me.
Infact I hope you are in the post for a very very long time!!

However, after the post you made on ChessNE1 (untrustworthy individuals) how can anyone work with you.
You made PRIVATE conversations & info PUBLIC, you are not the person I thought you were.

User avatar
Charles W. Wood
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:50 pm
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by Charles W. Wood » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:45 am

Hi Steve.

I think the spats between me and Ernie were all about information finding, no biggy. I stepped over the line in them posts. Ernie did push me but I reacted wrongly and apologied after a good smack on the wrist from several quarters (Including you).

As far as being able to ban people from leagues. I have only ever seen it once (luckily), I can't remember who but it was all down to threatening a junior during game play. If its in a playing environment its league if its out of a playing contex then its between the two parties.
Charles W. Wood
Captain of Legion

David Sedgwick
Posts: 4130
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:49 am

Ernie Lazenby (on the Chess NE1 Forum) wrote:The executive offficers of the CCA have agreed not to get involved in any discussions on this forum about CCA affairs. CCA members present at the recent executive meeting agreed that was totally the right thing to do.

Any attempt by any member of this forum to draw one of the executive officers into debate concerning CCA affairs will be ignored. If members of the CCA have questions they wish to ask the exec please do so through the correct channels. CCA business will no longer be conducted via this forum.
In that case, why is it appropriate for you to get involved in discussions here instead?

David Pardoe
Posts: 1225
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: NORTH WEST

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by David Pardoe » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:02 am

Guys,
If this thread is an attempt to settle private scores in public, I`d urge you to resist that temptation.
Yes, lets have constructive discussions and hear people`s ideas...
From personal experience, I`ve had some fair old battles on various forums. One of the things I sometimes find is that those who raise stupid or misjudged views get ceremoniously shot down by those participating, who quite often give sound advice (and good information).....and point out foolishness.
Its not always a good idea to get upset just because some person decides to call your views `rubbish`.
Sometimes, the best retort is to say... `what would you do thats better`.... and why.....
Those who are seen to behave regularly in a stupid fashion can suffer the fate of being ostricised, and even embarrassed/shamed into an apology.....
BRING BACK THE BCF

User avatar
Gavin Strachan
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:06 am
Contact:

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by Gavin Strachan » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:34 am

This is great, it's like Eastenders:

Image

"Come on then, down the vic now, if you gonna write that about me on the forum"

Image

"Easy Princess, it's just chess"

Image

"Oi! Just wait until I see you down the AGM"

Steve Henderson
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:32 pm
Location: Redcar
Contact:

Re: Behaviour of players and sanctions

Post by Steve Henderson » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:22 am

Lol - Class Gavin!!

Post Reply