2nd London Chess Classic 2010

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Tristan Clayton
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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Tristan Clayton » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:08 pm

Richard Bates wrote:I'm totally confused. Am i correct that the "Busy person's" first 5 rounds are included in the Weekender, but without being able to win the prizes? I will probably enter the Weekender like last year - does this mean that i can put in my usual woeful performance, and still have the chance of winning something?

Are all the weekend open participants going to be in a position where they could have potentially won the tournament with a round to spare, even if there are several other players on the same score?
There's nothing to indicate rounds 1-5 of the "Busy Persons Schedule" are part of the Weekend Open. They run to an identical schedule and time control, and neither will be FIDE-rated. But from the current information, they are different tournaments with separate prize funds: you could score 5/5 by Sunday evening as a "busy person" and still win nothing! (I suspect by then it would be too late to ask to transfer to the Weekender!)

Not sure about transferring from the Weekend Open to the rest of the FIDE Open schedule. It's not mentioned, and presumably it wouldn't be allowed as the tournaments will be separate, with different players competing?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:12 pm

Richard Bates wrote:I'm totally confused. Am i correct that the "Busy person's" first 5 rounds are included in the Weekender, but without being able to win the prizes?
I think the point being made was that "Busy Persons" schedule was identical to that of the weekender. So if you were such a person with some hopes of winning games or prize money in one of the weekenders, but no hope in the FIDE open, then you might prefer the weekender and turn down the option of an additional4 FIDE rated games in 3 days.

You could have back to back events - an unrated 5 rounds on Saturday & Sunday and a rated 5 rounds on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
Richard Bates wrote:the "problem" of some (relatively weak) "busy persons" getting to a large 5 round score and causing pairing havoc when they join the main tournament..
I don't think this multiple schedule idea have been tried outside the US of A. Probably for very good reasons.
Alex Holowczak wrote:You could also play a 4-hour session (in the Busy Persons) with 40/100 + 20.
Yes - they don't need to use 90 30 so the playing session can be curtailed to be compatible with the premises and public transport.
Presumably playing Saturday and Sunday 4 hour sessions is difficult because they are sharing a room with the weekenders.

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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:13 pm

Tristan Clayton wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:I'm totally confused. Am i correct that the "Busy person's" first 5 rounds are included in the Weekender, but without being able to win the prizes? I will probably enter the Weekender like last year - does this mean that i can put in my usual woeful performance, and still have the chance of winning something?

Are all the weekend open participants going to be in a position where they could have potentially won the tournament with a round to spare, even if there are several other players on the same score?
There's nothing to indicate rounds 1-5 of the "Busy Persons Schedule" are part of the Weekend Open. They run to an identical schedule and time control, and neither will be FIDE-rated. But from the current information, they are different tournaments with separate prize funds: you could score 5/5 by Sunday evening as a "busy person" and still win nothing! (I suspect by then it would be too late to ask to transfer to the Weekender!)

Not sure about transferring from the Weekend Open to the rest of the FIDE Open schedule. It's not mentioned, and presumably it wouldn't be allowed as the tournaments will be separate, with different players competing?
Ah OK - I misinterpreted your 8:30am comment. Seems to me that the organisers would want some quite strong players in the Busy Person's section though. Having a few 2000 strength players popping up onto the top boards after five rounds will cause resentment among those who miss out on being paired against them.

I don't actually see any reason why the first five rounds of the busy persons COULDN'T be the weekender (with eligibility to win prizes). It seems eminently sensible to me once you take the decision not to FIDE rate the first 5 busy person rounds.

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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:21 pm

Tristan Clayton wrote:Not sure about transferring from the Weekend Open to the rest of the FIDE Open schedule. It's not mentioned, and presumably it wouldn't be allowed as the tournaments will be separate, with different players competing?
Obviously you can start in the Open, do badly, withdraw and then play in a weekender. That's long been accepted.

What is novel and to my mind undesirable is that you can start in the Open, do badly, withdraw and then play in the Busy Persons. You then reappear in the Open with the score you made in the Busy Persons at the weekend. Whether the people that played you before you withdrew might have to play you again isn't stated anywhere that I've noticed. Also I wonder what happens if say you score 010 then withdraws, your first round opponent goes 100 then withdraws, can you still be paired against each other in the Busy Persons?

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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:25 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tristan Clayton wrote:Not sure about transferring from the Weekend Open to the rest of the FIDE Open schedule. It's not mentioned, and presumably it wouldn't be allowed as the tournaments will be separate, with different players competing?
Obviously you can start in the Open, do badly, withdraw and then play in a weekender. That's long been accepted.

What is novel and to my mind undesirable is that you can start in the Open, do badly, withdraw and then play in the Busy Persons. You then reappear in the Open with the score you made in the Busy Persons at the weekend. Whether the people that played you before you withdrew might have to play you again isn't stated anywhere that I've noticed. Also I wonder what happens if say you score 010 then withdraws, your first round opponent goes 100 then withdraws, can you still be paired against each other in the Busy Persons?
A norm seeker would start in the main tournament thinking about norms. Then having started badly they then decide they fancy winning some prize money instead, get to 5/5 and then only need a couple of wins to get a major prize. I suppose they might have to stump up a fair bit in entry fees to do so though, so perhaps not worth it.

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Anthony Higgs
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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Anthony Higgs » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:14 pm

Tristan Clayton wrote:What we 'busy persons' have got is effectively 5 rounds of the weekender (with no opportunity to win that tournament's prize money) plus - for an extra 75 quid - a maximum of four FIDE-rated rounds of chess. And for me it means taking 3 days' annual leave from work.

The overall prize money for the Open is of course very good (but only if you win it - otherwise it's the same as any tournament!). But personally, I can't justify entering it.

I don't know what others busy players think, but I'd gladly have paid the same entry fee for 6-8 rated rounds over 3-5 days. This would probably have meant running a separate FIDE tournament, and there might be reasons why this isn't possible.

Don't get me wrong - I'm really looking forward to the LCC, and I'm very glad it's happening. London is woefully short of longplay congresses, and such a high-profile and well organised event is great for British chess.

But I can't help feeling there's a missed opportunity here. The 'busy persons schedule' idea is good, but perhaps needs tweaking for 2011?
I completely agree with everything said here.

For me an ideal schedule for a 'busy person' wanting to play FIDE-rated chess (as I do) would be 2 rounds Sat/Sun/Mon and 1 round Tue. This would mean 3 more games would be FIDE-rated over the current proposals, and save me a day's holiday and London accommodation/eating out costs as there is no play on the Wednesday. The only thing I would miss out on would be 2 games of ECF-only rated chess as there would be 7 rounds instead of 9. As a busy person I consider that a good trade-off!

I know this would mean transferring from the standard-schedule Open would probably not work out but is that really a big problem? There's no safety net for GMs who start poorly in the Hastings Masters for example, and they still enter that.
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Graham Borrowdale

Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:33 pm

"What we 'busy persons' have got is effectively 5 rounds of the weekender (with no opportunity to win that tournament's prize money) plus - for an extra 75 quid - a maximum of four FIDE-rated rounds of chess. And for me it means taking 3 days' annual leave from work."
That seems to sum up my view as well. As a very occasional congress player I would have preferred the opportunity to have played some games at a shorter time limit than all moves in 90 minutes, which I get plenty of in league matches. 5 games in 2 days followed by 4 games in 3 days looks a bit out of kilter to me.

The point has also been made (Richard Bates I think) that 'weaker' players might have an easy passage to round 6 by playing in the Busy schedule - that could well be true, assuming the really strong players choose the slower schedule, but I think it could also be an opportunity for some really strong players to make a killing by delibarately choosing the Busy schedule. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:07 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:I don't think this multiple schedule idea have been tried outside the US of A.
I'm told the Moscow Open of 2007 also featured it. They even appear to have offered a schedule where you could play one day of rapidplay (4 rounds) and then 5 "normal" rounds.

http://www.2007.moscowchessopen.ru/pre/org.html is the webpage. You need to be able to read Russian or have the Google translate thing installed.

I'm also informed that the idea was later dropped. If you get a number of GMs and IMs playing in the accelerated schedule, this cuts down norm opportunities in the "slow" event.

(edit) by later I mean in subsequent years. I expect it took place in 2007 as advertised.
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Howard Grist » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:48 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:'m told the Moscow Open of 2007 also featured it. They even appear to have offered a schedule where you could play one day of rapidplay (4 rounds) and then 5 "normal" rounds.

http://www.2007.moscowchessopen.ru/pre/org.html is the webpage. You need to be able to read Russian or have the Google translate thing installed.

I'm also informed that the idea was later dropped. If you get a number of GMs and IMs playing in the accelerated schedule, this cuts down norm opportunities in the "slow" event.
It doesn't appear to have been dropped. The FIDE rating report for the event features 25 players with various byes for the first four rounds.
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Matthew Peat
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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Matthew Peat » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:13 pm

I note that there is still no updating of the website to show entries received for the Open (unless no-one has entered). I am trying to convince a friend from Ukraine to come over for the tournament but as he is after a GM norm, he wants some re-assurance before he forks out for travel & accomodation that there will be good norm chances.

Can anyone associated with the event update the page or confirm the GM entrants?

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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:15 pm

I'm told that 6 GMs have been invited so, assuming the usual mix of foreign players there should be no problem.

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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Keith Arkell » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:41 pm

Matthew Peat wrote:I note that there is still no updating of the website to show entries received for the Open (unless no-one has entered). I am trying to convince a friend from Ukraine to come over for the tournament but as he is after a GM norm, he wants some re-assurance before he forks out for travel & accomodation that there will be good norm chances.

Can anyone associated with the event update the page or confirm the GM entrants?
Well Matthew I can confirm that I am one of the 6 GMs,though I don't think I'm currently very good value for GM norm hunters.

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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:06 pm

Keith Arkell wrote:
Matthew Peat wrote:I note that there is still no updating of the website to show entries received for the Open (unless no-one has entered). I am trying to convince a friend from Ukraine to come over for the tournament but as he is after a GM norm, he wants some re-assurance before he forks out for travel & accomodation that there will be good norm chances.

Can anyone associated with the event update the page or confirm the GM entrants?
Well Matthew I can confirm that I am one of the 6 GMs,though I don't think I'm currently very good value for GM norm hunters.
Quite good value for IM norm hunters further down the field though ;) You count as 1.5 IMs for them!

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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Keith Arkell » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:31 pm

I meant because of my rating Richard. Haha re your dig about ''further down the field'' :lol: hopefully I will be out of range :D

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 2nd London Chess Classic 2010

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:17 pm

I've been looking at the schedule for this event, and is it just me or is it not really possible to combine spectating and playing? You seem to have to chose one or the other, or accept only seeing the end of the Classic games if you have a short game yourself in one of the subsidiary events. If anyone has worked out the best balance between playing and spectating (I know there were viewing boards in the lobby/cafe area last year), maybe they could say? I suspect the Weekend Classic might be best, as anything in the FIDE Open clashes with watching the main event.

The 45 entries announced today for the FIDE Open are here:

http://www.londonchessclassic.com/festival_entries.htm

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