English Chess Forum

Following on from the thread on resignations, I'm sure we've all seen some standard situations in which draws tend to be offered...

a) The player making the offer is slightly worse but not completely lost, and hopes his opponent can't be bothered to try to win it.
b) The position is roughly level, but the player making the offer is lower rated and thinks that if they play on he's likely to make a mistake before his opponent does.
c) It's the last game of a match, the game could still go either way but the team whose player makes the offer is a point ahead in the match.

Obviously in all three situations the opponent is almost certain to decline the offer, but does that mean it's rude to make it?

Michael Jones wrote:Obviously in all three situations the opponent is almost certain to decline the offer, but does that mean it's rude to make it?

I don't think it does any harm to offer the draw, particularly if the rest of the team are eager to get home/ to the bar. I would say that the offer should only be made once and not repeated unless the position on the board has changed materially.

a slight variation on b:
the player offering is lower rated, but the game is very drawn, and he hopes that the opponent will overpress trying to win if they decline the draw

Rob Thompson wrote:a slight variation on b:
the player offering is lower rated, but the game is very drawn, and he hopes that the opponent will overpress trying to win if they decline the draw

That sort of thing is dangerous unless you are happy with a draw, as your opponent could just accept and your plan of winning when he overpresses will then have gone up in smoke.

A draw offer variation I haven't seen mentioned is offering a draw if your opponent is in severe time trouble but clearly winning. Some might say that is rude and even verging on gamemanship, as your opponent may refuse the draw offer and blunder. But others would say that you are offering him the chance to avoid losing on time. Tricky one that.

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: But others would say that you are offering him the chance to avoid losing on time. Tricky one that.

If it's the final time control, then a draw offer is saying that if your opponent were to make a 10.2 claim, then you would accept it. If the opponent declines then a subsequent loss on time arises because they risked losing in pursuit of victory.

In the first time control, it's not quite as clear since a draw offer could be construed as a distraction.

Roger de Coverly wrote:

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: But others would say that you are offering him the chance to avoid losing on time. Tricky one that.

If it's the final time control, then a draw offer is saying that if your opponent were to make a 10.2 claim, then you would accept it. If the opponent declines then a subsequent loss on time arises because they risked losing in pursuit of victory.

In the first time control, it's not quite as clear since a draw offer could be construed as a distraction.

For me absolutely no doubt that it is completely legitimate in the first time control, provided that it us made in an undemonstrative manner in the sequence move-offer-clock

PB

I declined a draw offer last night, only to be told that my opponent was resigning because her parents weren't prepared to return for a resumption.

A fact made worse by the fact that their team chose adjournments, we chose quickplay, and the majority of players in their team wanted quickplay but no one asked them!

Alex Holowczak wrote:I declined a draw offer last night, only to be told that my opponent was resigning because her parents weren't prepared to return for a resumption.

A fact made worse by the fact that their team chose adjournments, we chose quickplay, and the majority of players in their team wanted quickplay but no one asked them!

That will teach them for choosing adjournments then. Don't feel bad.

Gareth Harley-Yeo wrote:

Alex Holowczak wrote:I declined a draw offer last night, only to be told that my opponent was resigning because her parents weren't prepared to return for a resumption.

A fact made worse by the fact that their team chose adjournments, we chose quickplay, and the majority of players in their team wanted quickplay but no one asked them!

That will teach them for choosing adjournments then. Don't feel bad.

That was roughly the extent of my sentiments.

However, I feel bad because the player was a junior, and clearly no one had asked whether she wanted one or the other, or even explained it to them. In fact, they were unaware of what an adjournment was, because she wanted to seal the move before but played the move. This sort of situation is very likely to put juniors off; which is exactly the sort of player I want to encourage into league chess. This will do anything but encourage them to play league chess.

I then get told off by one of their team. "I won't make a fuss, but". I'm apparently taking advantage of them because they don't know the rules. Why is it my fault that their team don't know the rules? My team knew all these rules at the start of the season; I spoke to them at great length about them. I explained some games would be quickplay, some would be adjournment, this is how you adjourn etc.

Variation d) the player offering the draw is lost/significantly worse but is higher graded so hopes the opponent will be happy to draw with them. Often accepted, depending on how grading concious the lower rated player is.

And variation e) the lower rated player has the better position and offers a draw - often turned down depending on how much higher rated the opponent is and how much better the position is.


Sofia rules stop all of this gamemaship of course but thats a whole different discussion!

"I then get told off by one of their team. "I won't make a fuss, but". I'm apparently taking advantage of them because they don't know the rules. Why is it my fault that their team don't know the rules? My team knew all these rules at the start of the season; I spoke to them at great length about them. I explained some games would be quickplay, some would be adjournment, this is how you adjourn etc."

That attitude annoys me too - I've had it as league organiser and arbiter too. My usual response, "Why are you playing in the competition if you claim not to know the rules?" doesn't seem to placate them. I was once told it was "unfair" to a junior to warn him he had to record the game as he didn't know he had to, despite the fact he was graded over 190...

Kevin Thurlow wrote:"I then get told off by one of their team. "I won't make a fuss, but". I'm apparently taking advantage of them because they don't know the rules. Why is it my fault that their team don't know the rules? My team knew all these rules at the start of the season; I spoke to them at great length about them. I explained some games would be quickplay, some would be adjournment, this is how you adjourn etc."

That attitude annoys me too - I've had it as league organiser and arbiter too. My usual response, "Why are you playing in the competition if you claim not to know the rules?" doesn't seem to placate them. I was once told it was "unfair" to a junior to warn him he had to record the game as he didn't know he had to, despite the fact he was graded over 190...

A few seasons ago I had an opponent graded around 145-150 (in old money) pick up one of my pieces and then put it back, deciding the capture wouldn’t favour him. I explained he had to take the piece with one of his pieces now that he’s touched it, but he refused as in his mind the rules regarding 'touch move' only related to touching his pieces! The dispute escalated to me having to phone the league director to confirm the rules of chess to him. He still refused to play on, deciding instead to storm out of the venue, taking one of his team mates with him not to return, on the grounds of my "unsporting behaviour". I somehow managed to win 2-0 that night!

Another one last night: one of my team moved his B, put it on the square, and held his hand on the piece. His opponent insisted that he had to move it down he'd put it down on the board. His opponent insisted that he should go and consult his captain. Luckily the captain was me! The other captain agreed too, but it was slightly barmy. Particularly given he ended up making that move anyway...

Alex Holowczak wrote:Another one last night: one of my team moved his B, put it on the square, and held his hand on the piece.

Legal but impolite in my view

PB

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:A draw offer variation I haven't seen mentioned is offering a draw if your opponent is in severe time trouble but clearly winning. Some might say that is rude and even verging on gamemanship, as your opponent may refuse the draw offer and blunder. But others would say that you are offering him the chance to avoid losing on time. Tricky one that.

I see nothing wrong with this at all (provided the draw offer is made in accordance with the rules; in particular, before the clock is pressed). If a bystander would think there is considerable doubt that the player being offered the draw will win the game, then a draw offer is in order. It doesn't matter whether that's due to the position on the board or the time on the clock.