English Chess Forum

Hi All, I could not help but come to a easy hypothesis about a certain incident which has recently happened to me, and seems to be regular in league chess.

What strikes me is when reporting or noticing after the match or later on that you were not playing a "Registered Player", for the club or someone with an estimated grade even is quite infuriating. Especially when their captain is totally aware of the circumstances.

The League in which I play in the BCA strictly says under the constitution of rules, that you have to give good notice when registering the players. And they have to be a registered player for the club, although a guy I played and someone else on my team played a ringer!

The league have been trying for sometime too demolish clubs and captains doing this playing unregistered players.

This can be particularly unfair and disadvantageous towards the opposition because those players without even an estimate could be somewhat undergraded. And how can the game get graded when they don't have an estimate.

Would be interested in any comments on this!

Matt.

I fielded an unregistered player in my team the other day; I forgot to send the e-mail registering him...

He was on board 6, he lost, and we lost 5-1. This became 5-0 after a 1 point penalty was imposed. It turns out, I'd have had a better match result had I defaulted the board! Board difference isn't a tie-breaker though, so it's no big deal.

matt_ward wrote: And how can the game get graded when they don't have an estimate.

Very easily as the ECF have a cunning recursion that they run at the end of the season. The grades on the Berkshire website have no significance other than for information and to support a rule which requires teams to be played in order of strength.

The third division of the Berks League is for most practical purposes a junior and social division with short 75 minute time controls. The rule about pre-registering players is just there to remove the AN Other plague which can otherwise damage result reporting. Particularly for the first match of the season, it's the attitude of most match captains that a relaxed attitude should be taken. The idea of a chess league is to score points by winning games of chess. If you want to score points by arguing points of law, try a mooting competition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moot_court.

But Roger, this is somewhat ludicrious I'm somewhat taken back I would certainly disagree with the comment you saying

" The third division of the Berks League is for most practical purposes a junior and social division with short 75 minute time controls."

Firstly for not agreeing with this statement is because if you look the majority of people playing in division three BCA it is mainly adults that play. In contrary to this most people do take it still pretty serious, i.e. they follow the rules they don't turn up totally under the influence of alcohol. Or under the influence of drugs, they don't talk whilst the game is in play they write the moves.

These things I have mentioned are all rules in chess which should be Obeyed by. Therefore I feel it should be the same with registering players, because it can dramatically influence the result of a game or outcome of a match!

Roger as your the League controller of the BCA can you answer the following queries I have.

1.) If your phone goes off during play more than once in the BCA can you claim a win by default like the 4ncl.

2.) Whats the punishment for someone that does not write down their moves during a slowplay game like in division three. Would player A that is not writing his moves down have to do so if is his opponent noticed during his time, or do you have to instantly claim that player B has stopped writing his moves down, or does it depend on when he's starting or stopping writing down the moves, Or do you stop the clocks.

I am semi- sure but not 100% and most captains don't seem to know either so I think it is best I ask here! In future I will have to take the rules to every match to stop controversy.

matt

matt_ward wrote: 2.) Whats the punishment for someone that does not write down their moves during a slowplay game like in division three. Would player A that is not writing his moves down have to do so if is his opponent noticed during his time, or do you have to instantly claim that player B has stopped writing his moves down, or does it depend on when he's starting or stopping writing down the moves, Or do you stop the clocks.

The rule is that you must have written down your previous move before you make your next one. If your opponent or the arbiter notices that your scoresheet is not up-to-date by that definition, he may insist that you write down the missing moves on your own clock time before you play your next one. A claim of this nature will normally only be entertained if the scoresheet is not up-to-date at the time it is made.

I like the registration system we have in the North Devon League. It goes by the catchy name of "none at all".

But Jack, Do you not agree if people decided to follow some rules why not the Registering system at the end of the day it is important on the basis it can effect the outcome of an important match.

But Yes, none at all would seriously be a bad idea as then people can be under- estimated and then would get the weaker teams in stronger positions because they have not be registered and therefore have not been given a grade which in turn means people can get away without playing in grading strength.

Matt.

How does a registration system ensure that ungraded players play in their "correct" position?

matt_ward wrote:But Jack, Do you not agree if people decided to follow some rules why not the Registering system at the end of the day it is important on the basis it can effect the outcome of an important match.

But Yes, none at all would seriously be a bad idea as then people can be under- estimated and then would get the weaker teams in stronger positions because they have not be registered and therefore have not been given a grade which in turn means people can get away without playing in grading strength.

Matt.

You clearly don't know the extreme levels of competition in the North Devon league...

I'm glad my local league (Coventry) doesn't compel clubs to register new players before allowing them to play in a league match, as with the number of people we usually get dropping out on the day of the match I would find it impossible to state my team selection even 24 hours in advance and be able to stick to it!

Believe me, estimating the grades of new players is very far from being an exact science. I used to be president of a university club, which since most players are only there for 3-4 years naturally has a far higher annual turnover of players than a 'normal' club. At the start of each season we might get 10-15 new players turn up (a number of whom will probably disappear after the first two weeks), and maybe one or two more who suddenly decide to put in an appearance halfway through the season. A few of these may already have grades, most will not. We usually run a friendly tournament in the first or second week, with the twin aims of getting new players involved in the club and allowing captains to assess their playing strength and allocate them to a team accordingly. Mostly we hope that estimated grades will be within 10 or so of the player's actual grade at the end of the season, but occasionally we find that someone happened to be playing particularly well or particularly badly on the day of the tournament, and over/underestimate their true playing strength accordingly - sometimes by as much as 50. So if you suspect that an ungraded player is not in his 'correct' place in the board order, please don't automatically assume that the captain has done it deliberately in order to gain an advantage!

Fortunately the opposing captains are usually understanding of the additional difficulties involved in running a university club, and would rather we pulled someone in off the street (which we have done on occasion) than default a board. I'll reiterate a point I've made previously: local league chess is not the Olympiad, it is not the 4NCL, and I would hope that it is not treated as such. There are no professionals here, we all play for fun, and at the end of the evening the fact that two people enjoyed playing a game of chess is more important than who won or lost it, or who may or may not have commited a minor infringement of some obscure regulation.

I completely agree with everything you say there Michael.

matt_ward wrote:Roger as your the League controller of the BCA can you answer the following queries I have.

Matt, instead of continually asking other people what the rules are, why don't you just read them?

matt_ward wrote:But Yes, none at all would seriously be a bad idea as then people can be under- estimated and then would get the weaker teams in stronger positions because they have not be registered and therefore have not been given a grade which in turn means people can get away without playing in grading strength.

Perhaps but so what?

New players in the bottom division of any league are most likely to be playing their first competitive games of chess. Until they have played a game or several, their strength is unknown or at best inferred from friendly or blitz games.

The only real reason that Berks have a registration system at all is in support of the league management software which works on the basis of drop downs from a player list. This ensures consistent spelling and guards against ghost duplicate players.

matt_ward wrote:The League in which I play in the BCA strictly says under the constitution of rules, that you have to give good notice when registering the players. And they have to be a registered player for the club, although a guy I played and someone else on my team played a ringer!

To put some closure on this matter, the club secretary (unlike Alex H ) had sent an email containing a list of the players before the match. This is within the rules as they are framed to cover the circumstances when the website is unavailable.