Problems with wind up clocks!
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Problems with wind up clocks!
Hello everyone,
I do apologise if this has been mentioned in recent times to my knowledge it has not but. I couldn't help but comment on a incident I had been in, I was playing a game for my club, in a local league.
And on several occasions my opponents clock stopped working and we had to pause and re- wind the clocks as they were not digitals.
I was just curious what the cause of action would be for future reference, between " Yourself and your opponent", to come to an amicable decision when no arbiter is present.
Has anyone else had this problem while their game was in progress with the clocks?
Regards Matt.
I do apologise if this has been mentioned in recent times to my knowledge it has not but. I couldn't help but comment on a incident I had been in, I was playing a game for my club, in a local league.
And on several occasions my opponents clock stopped working and we had to pause and re- wind the clocks as they were not digitals.
I was just curious what the cause of action would be for future reference, between " Yourself and your opponent", to come to an amicable decision when no arbiter is present.
Has anyone else had this problem while their game was in progress with the clocks?
Regards Matt.
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
I've had several experiences of clocks stopping in my game. You press the button and nothing happens. Press again, and suddenly they start!matt_ward wrote: Has anyone else had this problem while their game was in progress with the clocks?
I had a game that started at 7:35pm, and was played to 30 in 75, back 15. I won the game at 10:40pm, and we had about 8 minutes left between us.
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
I once saw a league game with the same time control that lasted about 3 1/2 hours - we'd just bought some new digital clocks, hadn't quite figured out how to use them yet and accidentally set them to add a 15 second increment!
As regards analogue clocks, of course there will be some problems - most often caused either by them being wound too far, or by players (not necessarily the ones using the clock at the time of the malfunction) hitting them too hard. If one does stop during a game, try pressing it again. If that doesn't work, try winding it a bit more (assuming it hasn't been overwound already). If all else fails, use a different clock - any home team or tournament organiser that doesn't have one or two spares on hand is pushing their luck!
As regards analogue clocks, of course there will be some problems - most often caused either by them being wound too far, or by players (not necessarily the ones using the clock at the time of the malfunction) hitting them too hard. If one does stop during a game, try pressing it again. If that doesn't work, try winding it a bit more (assuming it hasn't been overwound already). If all else fails, use a different clock - any home team or tournament organiser that doesn't have one or two spares on hand is pushing their luck!
Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
Just used a digital clock for the first time, in a League match, Friday gone. It was strange not looking at a clock face to work out how much time I had left, I know that sounds strange, considering the time is right in front of me!!!
Another problem for me was that the twenty mins wasn't added to the time until there was only two mins remaining. Kept asking my opponent if clock was ok, was worrying if it wasn't going to change.
Call me old fashioned, but I do like a clock face. Wonder if they do a digital clock face?
Another problem for me was that the twenty mins wasn't added to the time until there was only two mins remaining. Kept asking my opponent if clock was ok, was worrying if it wasn't going to change.
Call me old fashioned, but I do like a clock face. Wonder if they do a digital clock face?
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
Well, now you've played one game with it, and know the ropes with them, there's no problem, right? If you used one in another game, you'd know exactly what was going on.Warren Kingston wrote: Another problem for me was that the twenty mins wasn't added to the time until there was only two mins remaining. Kept asking my opponent if clock was ok, was worrying if it wasn't going to change.
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
Well, Alex, I don't think it's quite as simple as that. When you have played with analogue clocks for as long as I have, the angle of the minute hand to the vertical, the position of the flag, the millimetre or less from the tip of the minute hand to the end of the flag, all have a concrete relationship to the speed at which I have to play bearing in mind the number of moves left to the time control. The digital display does not have the same meaning, and it has taken me a long time to start to cope with it. Still not quite there.Well, now you've played one game with it, and know the ropes with them, there's no problem, right? If you used one in another game, you'd know exactly what was going on.
Anyway, I have the same distrustful feelings towards digital clocks as I would have to electronic voting machines if they were introduced here. How do I know that there is not a subtle hack, say a combination of button presses, which results in one person's second being slightly longer or shorter than his opponent's? I suppose I should add a smiley at this point ...
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
is this some kind of windup?
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
The digital display is actually an advantage here. Rather than guessing when the flag is going to fall in the last 2 minutes, you can actually see the time remaining to the nearest second. If you push your time controls close, a digital clock is a big advantage.Pat Bennett wrote:Well, Alex, I don't think it's quite as simple as that. When you have played with analogue clocks for as long as I have, the angle of the minute hand to the vertical, the position of the flag, the millimetre or less from the tip of the minute hand to the end of the flag, all have a concrete relationship to the speed at which I have to play bearing in mind the number of moves left to the time control. The digital display does not have the same meaning, and it has taken me a long time to start to cope with it. Still not quite there.Well, now you've played one game with it, and know the ropes with them, there's no problem, right? If you used one in another game, you'd know exactly what was going on.
Because you're a rational human being.Pat Bennett wrote:How do I know that there is not a subtle hack, say a combination of button presses, which results in one person's second being slightly longer or shorter than his opponent's? I suppose I should add a smiley at this point ...
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
There is a way of doing this providing you can cut the clock in half and allow them to transported at velocities close to that of the velocity of light in vacuo.Pat Bennett wrote: Anyway, I have the same distrustful feelings towards digital clocks as I would have to electronic voting machines if they were introduced here. How do I know that there is not a subtle hack, say a combination of button presses, which results in one person's second being slightly longer or shorter than his opponent's? I suppose I should add a smiley at this point ...
However, this is also true of analogue clocks.
I will leave Alex to supply the appropriate relativistic equations.
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
... and a rational human being wishing to do this would use an analogue clock which has levers on the back of each clock designed for this purpose.Alex Holowczak wrote:Because you're a rational human being.Pat Bennett wrote:How do I know that there is not a subtle hack, say a combination of button presses, which results in one person's second being slightly longer or shorter than his opponent's? I suppose I should add a smiley at this point ...
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
I have observed that older "more experienced" players can use an intermediate time control to bewilder juniors into gaining a couple of minutes on their clock.
This happens at the quaint, age old practise of "winding back the clock" at an intermediate time control which the older players love. They come into their age with their years of experience.
They might be lowly rated but they sure as hell know how to fiddle the clock!
Not being able to fiddle clocks is a major bugbear for some players.
I know one person who loves the dreadful Garde analogue clock. He smashes the button and, if his position becomes lost, "accidentally" tips the clock onto the board scattering the position. He is hilarious. He also likes to "rest" his clock hand (not his playing hand) on the button. It is artistry in action.
The first TC is reached, the older player grasps the clock and "Paul Daniels like" manages to give himself more than and maybe even the opponent less time.
It is hilarious and sad to witness.
This happens at the quaint, age old practise of "winding back the clock" at an intermediate time control which the older players love. They come into their age with their years of experience.
They might be lowly rated but they sure as hell know how to fiddle the clock!
Not being able to fiddle clocks is a major bugbear for some players.
I know one person who loves the dreadful Garde analogue clock. He smashes the button and, if his position becomes lost, "accidentally" tips the clock onto the board scattering the position. He is hilarious. He also likes to "rest" his clock hand (not his playing hand) on the button. It is artistry in action.
The first TC is reached, the older player grasps the clock and "Paul Daniels like" manages to give himself more than and maybe even the opponent less time.
It is hilarious and sad to witness.
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
True once you get used to it. The first couple of times I played with a digital clock I found watching my time disappear before my eyes incredibly alarming. Doesn't take too long to get used to, fortunately ... althouth I assume the more you've used an old-style clock the longer it will take to adapt to a digital clock.Alex Holowczak wrote:The digital display is actually an advantage here. Rather than guessing when the flag is going to fall in the last 2 minutes, you can actually see the time remaining to the nearest second. If you push your time controls close, a digital clock is a big advantage.
I have no particular preference for digital or analogue. They both have advantages and disadvantages.
My one big annoyance of my opponent/another club introducing a digital clock is that is impossible for me to check that the clock has been set correctly. As I understand it - and not unreasonably - if there is a problem as a result to the faulty setting of a clock the players concerned are deemed to be at fault for not checking everything was set up the right way before the game began.
This has not proved to be a problem as yet - partly because the one time my clock malfuncitoned I happened to be playing next to one of the leading arbiters in the country who helped us sort the problem out - but I suspect sod's law will ensure that when it is my turn for a clock balls up it will happen at a particularly critical moment in a particularly critical game.
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
This is a fallacy.Jonathan Bryant wrote: My one big annoyance of my opponent/another club introducing a digital clock is that is impossible for me to check that the clock has been set correctly.
The DGT clocks ( I do not vouch for any lesser products) allow one to step through the program that has been set before your very eyes.
Observe : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krsDPQsR ... =1&index=1
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
The FIDE rules don't say that - see Rule 6.10 b, unless its a rapidplay or blitz game, when you've got 3 moves to spot the error.Jonathan Bryant wrote:As I understand it - and not unreasonably - if there is a problem as a result to the faulty setting of a clock the players concerned are deemed to be at fault for not checking everything was set up the right way before the game began.
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Re: Problems with wind up clocks!
Well, thank you for that, Alex! You are more generous than many of my friends ..Because you're a rational human being
However. I owned a Canon 300D digital camera. At the same time, Canon had brought out the 10D, which was more substantial (heavier), and was able to do rather more things than the 300D could. Then some Dutchmen hacked the 10D firmware and worked out how to make a version of the 300D firmware to enable it to do the clever things that it lacked. I downloaded the firmware, loaded it into my camera, which immediately became cleverer.
Now if that is possible, then it is possible that a chess clock is hackable, and to have its firmware replaced by a cleverer version which enables skullduggery. I accept that it may not be possible, depending on how the electronics of the clock is organised, but ....