English Chess Forum

I'm not interested in entering into the panto discussion of IS/ISN'T - oh yes it is, oh no it isn't. I want to find out what happened.

Back in 1999, then Minister of Sport, Tony Banks, said "Chess is a sport in which there are no barriers of physical ability or between the sexes." (Hansard, 15 March - there's quite a bit more that's interesting).

In 2006 (10 December), The Independent reported "It took a few shrewd moves but, at last, it is official: chess is a sport. ... The change in the law, which follows decades of campaigning by fans supported by MPs and peers, was slipped through the Commons by cabinet office minister Ed Miliband, himself a devotee." [I've not found the relevant bit in Hansard]

Can anyone point to any solid references detailing what happened to Miliband's initiative?

PS. For me, the argument about whether or not chess is a sport is simply resolved by the fact that FIDE is one of the 32 members of ARISF (Association of IOC Recognised Sports Federations). [The fact that it also has govt recognition from 23 of the EU27 (not Denmark, Ireland, Sweden or UK) and features in both Asian and African Games does no harm to the case either.]

Kevin O'Connell wrote:Back in 1999, then Minister of Sport, Tony Banks, said "Chess is a sport in which there are no barriers of physical ability or between the sexes." (Hansard, 15 March - there's quite a bit more that's interesting).

The old Stanley Baldwin Act which said that chess wasn't a sport is still in force according to Hansard http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/acts ... n-act-1937

Even worse, it appears that sport is devolved so that Wales and Scotland have to agree to amend the Act as well.

Kevin O'Connell wrote:Can anyone point to any solid references detailing what happened to Miliband's initiative?

There's been a change that under some circumstances, chess organisations could structure themselves as charities.

Here's the reference on a then popular discussion forum.
http://www.atticuschess.org.uk/forum/ph ... .php?t=358


Also here

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=340

There are others who know much more about this than I do, but my take on it is as follows.

Tony Banks, when Minister for Sport, supported the idea, but failed to obtain the necessary Parliamentary time to pursue it. He was succeeded by Kate Hoey, who made it clear to the ECF that she was dropping the issue.

I think the rather puzzling quote from the Independent must, as Roger says, be a reference to the Charities Act 2006. In principle mind sports have the same entitlement as phsical sports under that legislation; in practice we're still waiting, four years later, for the Charities Commission to produce the necessary guidelines.

I referred briefly to the matter in my Report (as CCPR Representative) to the ECF Council Meeting on 16th October; the Report is available at http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... tative.pdf.

Here is the relevant extract:

"A representative of Sport England made it clear [at the September 2010 CCPR Divisional Meeting] that there is little or no prospect for some time of Sport England adding to the list of 46 sports which it currently funds. Hence, even if the recognition of chess and other mind sports were to occur, it would be most unlikely to result in any immediate funding from this source.

The possibility of making progress on the implementation of the Charities Act 2006 seems to be more promising. This would have fiscal benefits for the ECF. The CCPR agreed to raise the issue with its parliamentary contacts."

Roger, David,

Thanks for that. I had assumed that the 2006 reference was probably "Journalese" about the Charities Act.

As it happens I just made a private enquiry on this subject, thinking that government money earmarked for developing excellence and supporting juniors would help the ECF over some of its current junior issues.

Here is the exchange:

The following enquiry has been sent from the SportEngland website:

Name: Mr Paul Sanders
Organisation: none
Subject: General enquiries
Enquiry message:

How can you possibly justify recognising model aircraft flying as a sport, but not chess? At least with chess you move your whole arm, and don't just wiggle your thumbs? Is there a published rationale for rejecting chess?

Thanks



Dear Paul

Thank you for your email. The Sports Councils accept that aero model flying is an activity that involves a low intensity of physical effort but one that does require hand / eye co-ordination to take part in. Model glider flying will also often require participants to launch (i.e. throw) heavy model aircraft.

There is no published rationale for the Sports Councils not recognising chess as a sport. Recognition is subject to application and must meet the criteria for recognising sports. Details of the current criteria and recognition process can be found on the Sport England website at: http://www.sportengland.org/about_us/ho ... ports.aspx

Richard

Richard Clarkson
NGB and Sport Directorate

The criteria are quite clear however, and I would say that trying to shovel chess into the 'sport' bucket is misdirected. There are funds for youth, and for European cultural exchange, which fit much better. I am not however an expert, and with the energies of the Junior Director spread so thin, covering EPSCA and the NCJS alongside his ECF duties, I suspect there is very little time left for schmoozing politicians.

Firstly, should this thread not be placed under `ECF Matters. After all, we`re talking about obtaining funding for the ECF & chess.
I`m wondering what the position is regarding activities like Bridge?
I`m fairly sure this should be classed as a cultural activity, and that all such cultural groups should get fair tax breaks.....our cultural heritage is very important in a society where people are increasingly snarled up in the madhouse slavery of imposed workaholic paranoia that pervades. No time left for Family, friends, social life..etc. Its all about work, money, targets, competition...and our mindless obsession with GROWTH...???
So our world resources are being hammered into the ground to meet this lunatic need..driven by media, politicians, far east cheap labour markets, etc..to compete...? And to cap it all, we have an exploding world population that is truely frightening, and non of our world leaders seem to realise that this is the number one problem. Instead, we talk about the population in this country rising to a staggering 90 million by 2060?
Where are we going to put these people...how are our roads, housing, utilities, social services, environment, Health..etc going to cope.
Returning...
So as regards our chess...should we not call on the Culture Minister to see how things can be progressed.

Good to see that Ed is apparently a fan of our noble pursuit, anyway. I don't suppose anybody on here would know any more??

I remember, when I was General Secretary of the BCF, going to a meeting with Sports Council with (I think, could well be wrong) Sir Stuart Milner-Barry and David Anderton....

Sports Council's view then was set very firmly against chess as a sport, on the 'lack of physical co-ordination' grounds mentioned above.

This would be back in the second half of the 1970s.

I speculate that Sport England's civil servants are still firmly against, and that there is not enough political will to set that opposition aside.

PB

Paul Buswell wrote:
I speculate that Sport England's civil servants are still firmly against, and that there is not enough political will to set that opposition aside.

Perhaps the issue is whether the UK government is prepared to offer financial support to chess, the precise mechanism not mattering. From the 1970s Heath Government onwards until now, the UK government offered some modest financial backing. Until the late 80s there was a global political issue, chess being one of the few things the former Soviet Union was any good at.

Until recently chess funding was through the Education ministries, thus avoiding the "as a sport" issue. How much support does chess get from other EU governments? I'd suspect most of them.

Roger de Coverly wrote: How much support does chess get from other EU governments? I'd suspect most of them.

A few figures I have to hand (even if only one is in the EU).

Andorra: €80,000
France: €75,000 (the 'real' figure is far higher because that is just the FFE, the regional organizations are partially supported by the Regional Olympic Committees)
Turkey: a little under €1.5 million.

On an incidental note, when I was organising the 2007 BUCA tournament I found that chess was recognised as a sport by BUSA (British Universities' Sports Association; subsequently renamed British University and College Sport); I'd presumed that BUSA took its list of sports from Sport England, but apparently not if one recognised chess and the other didn't.

Michael Jones wrote:On an incidental note, when I was organising the 2007 BUCA tournament I found that chess was recognised as a sport by BUSA (British Universities' Sports Association; subsequently renamed British University and College Sport); I'd presumed that BUSA took its list of sports from Sport England, but apparently not if one recognised chess and the other didn't.

BUSA, now BUCS, takes its list of sports not from Sport England but FISU, the world governing body for international student sport. Given the IOC recognises it, FISU do, so BUCS does.

Ah, thanks.

Martial Arts>BodyBuilding> Chess in my "sports" ranking

Matt Mackenzie wrote:Good to see that Ed is apparently a fan of our noble pursuit, anyway. I don't suppose anybody on here would know any more??

Tried googling "Ed Miliband chess" but got nothing that was relevant.

However it did return this: MP and local chess champion face off at the House of Commons with a nice picture of Toby Perkins MP, Emma Bentley and Malcolm Pein.