When is it bad manners to play silly openings?

[IM Jack Rudd]

I've seen players who've started games with 1.a4 and 2.Ra3 for genuine chess reasons ("I want to develop my rook"). Not terribly good players, it has to be said.

[Greg Breed]

I once was a controller at a tournament where the following game occurred. 1. a4 a5 2. h4 h5 draw agreed.

Was any action taken apart from giving each player half a point? No. It was two children, brother v. sister, who were at the bottom of the tournament and so had to be paired together.

Neville B

Could you as arbiter penalise them for that? I thought so... each situation has to be looked individually, much like every game of chess...

[John Upham]

Should we involve Eric Schiller in these discussions?

Many of the candidates for a default are analysed in "Unorthodox Chess Openings", Cardoza Publishing, 1998.

The Ware Defence, 1. e4 a5 2. d4 merits 1.5 pages starting p. 471

The Ware or Meadow Hay Opening 1.a4 gets 0.5 of a page as ES feels it is "too commital"

The Kadas Opening, 1.h4 boasts two pages with several games quoted.

Maybe the arbiters handbook (and ECF web site) should list the banned openings to help in any dispute?

[John Moore]

The point about two players playing silly moves, having previously agreed a draw is simple and Stewart will remember this from at least one of the episodes he recalls. They have to tell all of their friends in advance who then stand around the board greeting each successive inanity with barely concealed mirth - or not at all concealed in the case of one episode at the Major Open in years past. It is a teenager thing - if I wanted to agree a draw in advance (if I ever did such a thing) I would certainly make sure that my opponent and I agree on playing proper moves.

Mind you, I must admit to being probably the only elo rated player to lose on the White side of 1 e4 f5. My opponent - a teenager - said afterwards that he did it for a bet. My excuse was that it was the last round of the Major Open and I was a little inebriated. One of my friends suggested that my scoresheet bore more resemblance to noughts and crosses than chess.

[IM Jack Rudd]

Actually, I've found a few wins for black with that opening in my database. I don't know how many of the listed Elos are actual FIDE ratings, but here's the one with the highest-rated white I could find:

[Event "Miskolc Avas op"]
[Site "Miskolc"]
[Date "1999.??.??"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Hidegh, Gabor"]
[Black "Koncz, Lajos"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B00"]
[WhiteElo "2060"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[PlyCount "74"]
[EventDate "1999.??.??"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "HUN"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1999.11.16"]

1. e4 f5 2. exf5 Nf6 3. d4 d5 4. Bd3 c5 5. c3 Nc6 6. dxc5 e5 7. fxe6 Bxc5 8.
Nf3 O-O 9. O-O Bxe6 10. h3 Qd7 11. Ng5 Bf5 12. Bxf5 Qxf5 13. Qf3 Qc2 14. Ne6
Ne4 15. Nxf8 Rxf8 16. Qd1 Bxf2+ 17. Kh2 Bg3+ 18. Kg1 Rxf1+ 19. Qxf1 Ne5 20. Nd2
Nxd2 21. Bxd2 Qxd2 22. Qb5 h6 23. Qxb7 Nf3+ 24. Kh1 Ne1 25. Qc8+ Kf7 26. Qf5+
Ke7 27. Qf1 Nd3 28. Qf3 Nf2+ 29. Kg1 Ne4 30. Rf1 Bc7 31. Qf8+ Kd7 32. Qxg7+ Kc6
33. Qg6+ Kb7 34. Qf7 Qe3+ 35. Rf2 Nxf2 36. Qxf2 Qc1+ 37. Qf1 Bb6+ 0-1

[John Moore]

Hi Jack

Your research is as always useful - and the guy playing White is 2060 - about my rating these days. Mind you I don't think we'll see Dangerous Weapons 1e4 f5 anytime soon. However, Eric Schiller might be planning something as we speak.

[Stewart Reuben]

In a recent international tournament the game started 1 b3 f6 2 Bb2 Kf7. Black was much higher rated and of course won the game. White withdrew from the tournament and I am ot sure he has played since.
It is obvious to me that Black's actions brought the game into disrepute.
By the way, it is not neccessary for the action themselves to be disreputable. The Law concerns the effect of the action.
Stewart

[IM Jack Rudd]

I just looked the player with the white pieces up on the FIDE website - he's played eight rated games since. (This isn't a lot, but he has never been a particularly internationally active player anyway.)

[John Moore]

Not sure about this one. If I am 2060 and I play someone who is 2500 or whatever, I think I would be quite pleased if he started playing rubbish - probably still lose but my friends would be thinking after about 10 moves WOW - the king is on f7 already. Then I could sell the game to KingPin with my annotations.

Pressure between younger players and general mickey taking is almost certainly something different.

[Ben Hague]

In a recent international tournament the game started 1 b3 f6 2 Bb2 Kf7. Black was much higher rated and of course won the game. White withdrew from the tournament and I am ot sure he has played since.

Not the best of examples as this actually looks quite a reasonable approach for Black. I also see that according to my database there was another game played in what looks like another edition of the same tournament where Black again won despite only outrating his opponent by about 70 points.
Personally I accept that there are players who can beat me with the metaphorical one hand tied behind their back and if they want to make the game more interesting by playing odd openings then great. I'd far rather have a closish game than get bashed flat by a decent GM playing his normal game.

[David Tebb]

I've just done a trawl through my database and came across a game from the Finnish U18 Championship 1995 that started:

1.Nh3 Na6 2.Na3 Nh6 3.Ng5 Nb4 4.Nb5 Ng4 5.Ne4 Nd5 6.Nd4 Ne5 7.Nc3 Nf6 8.Nf3 Nc6 9.Nb1 Ng8 10.Ng1 Nb8

After 10 moves, the pieces were back on their original squares, except that all 4 knights had swapped positions!

Disappointingly, the rest of the game proceeded quite normally, with White winning in 41 moves:

11.e4 c5 12.Nc3 Nc6 13.g3 g6 14.Bg2 Bg7 15.d3 e6 16.Be3 d6 17.Qd2 a6 18.h4 h6 19.f4 Nf6 20.e5 dxe5 21.Bxc5 exf4 22.Qxf4 Nh5 23.Qe3 Qa5 24.Nge2 Nb4 25.Bxb4 Qxb4 26.0–0–0 0–0 27.a3 Qd6 28.Ne4 Qe7 29.g4 Nf6 30.g5 Nd5 31.Qf2 h5 32.Nf4 Nxf4 33.Qxf4 Ra7 34.Nf6+ Kh8 35.Bf3 b5 36.Bxh5 gxh5 37.Qf3 Bxf6 38.gxf6 Qc5 39.Qf4 Qf5 40.Qh6+ Kg8 41.Rdg1+ 1–0 Lehtinen,Antti - Simola,Tuomas, FIN-ch U18 Vammala, 1995

[John Moore]

This is the kind of thing you tell your mates about in advance as I said earlier - just don't bother about the poor guys on the boards around you trying to agree their draws properly

[John Moore]

By the way, if you do get to play me in the 4NCL, County matches or Leagues I don't normally offer the draw till I get to the venue - and start the game - and sometimes not even then.

[E Michael White]

This is all ridiculous. I dont think we want Mr S Reuben or any other arbiter deciding what moves can be played and what clothes to wear. I feel those actions would bring the game into disrepute. A senior arbiter like Mr Reuben should not be encouraging other arbiters to do likewise. In 1999 Mr S Williams played 1.f3 followed by 2.Kf7 in the British championship and won; he was not defaulted. Who was the chief arbiter then? What we need is arbiters who act consistently themselves and also with others.

In other games and sports players sometimes encourage their opponents to overreach and overcommit so why not in chess? Against 1. b3 ... 2 Bb2 an early f6 used to be recommended in the 1930s to prevent occupation of e5 by a WN and Kf7 sometimes as a form of pseudo castling whilst retaining the option to develop the bishop via g7 or e7, depending on what white plays.

I see on the SCCU Website Mr N Graham has stated he will warn a player for not using algebraic but not default him if he continues. Well its either against the rules or its not; arbiters should find out which and apply the same decision in every case. If its against the rules repeated action by the player requires the player to be defaulted, the arbiter does not have discretion. If its not against the rules he shouldn't warn him in the first place.

Arbiters should try and arbit in the same way that Wayne Rooney plays football; he seems to do the basic things extremely well. All this loose cannon activity by arbiters does not do the game any good.

[John Moore]

Sorry but I haven't found this thread ridiculous at all - I think that Stewart was right earlier on when he said something like I may not be able to define bringing the game into disrepute but I know it when I see it and I am sure, Michael, you agree that Dave Tebb's game quoted earlier in the thread deserves something from the arbiter - apart from benign indifference. If you are playing next to two people doing this, you might feel the need to do something yourself. Oh and Simon's game against Martin Simons went f3 followed by Kf2 - I know it's a cheap shot but if Simon had played Kf7, the arbiter might have had to step in.