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Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:57 am
by Neil Graham
John Clarke wrote:
Stewart Reuben wrote:The late W Ritson Morry ..... used to listen to cricket commentary during his chess games.
By earphone, of course. Wouldn't have been allowed to do it nowadays, would he?!!
I am sure that Ritson listened to the football results whilst arbiting at an event - no earphones!

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:42 pm
by Simon Dixon
What I dislike is players who can't or won't move their pieces properly, I know you can adjust which is acceptable for the odd misplaced move which can happen in a time scramble. But when you meet a player who is constantly moving pieces between squares on every move, and is not in time trouble, that can be very distracting, to me anyway.

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:53 pm
by Alex Holowczak
I have recently started to find some behaviour annoying.

Players will - perhaps in time trouble - physically make their move as quickly as they can, and then press the clock. They then bother to put the piece on the square properly, now that their clock isn't ticking. :evil:

Could I claim time for a distraction in such a situation?

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:25 pm
by matt_ward
There will be a book published soon on chess etiquette if not already one in existence called " Chess Etiquette", or something called " 1000 must NOT'S in chess".

There has to be a level where NO more rules can come apparent in the game of "chess", otherwise it will ruine the game.

Matt.

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:41 pm
by E Michael White
Alex Holowczak wrote:Players will - perhaps in time trouble - physically make their move as quickly as they can, and then press the clock. They then bother to put the piece on the square properly, now that their clock isn't ticking.
This amounts to improper clock handling and is already covered by the rules. It should suffer the same penalty as clock abuse according to the BCF chief arbiter at the time I asked him.

ie probably warning then default under rule 13.4

The arbiter does not have a choice under 6.7(c) and must penalise under 13.4.

But we have been here before; some players and arbiters believe that the arbiter need neither warn nor subsequently default a player. Those persons do not seem to me to understand adverbial clauses or the difference between "can" and "may". Perhaps they bunked off school when those came up. One thing is clear even to such persons, you cant j'adoube when its not your move.

Of course if we dont have a consitent set of rules and consistent arbiting this can prejudice the granting of charitable status. Too many rules ending "unless the arbiter decides otherwise" might make arbiters feel important but could prove 25% more expensive.

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:51 pm
by Alex Holowczak
E Michael White wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:Players will - perhaps in time trouble - physically make their move as quickly as they can, and then press the clock. They then bother to put the piece on the square properly, now that their clock isn't ticking.
This amounts to improper clock handling and is already covered by the rules. It should suffer the same penalty as clock abuse according to the BCF chief arbiter at the time I asked him.

ie probably warning then default under rule 13.4

The arbiter does not have a choice under 6.7(c) and must penalise under 13.4.

But we have been here before; some players and arbiters believe that the arbiter need neither warn nor subsequently default a player. Those persons do not seem to me to understand adverbial clauses or the difference between "can" and "may". Perhaps they bunked off school when those came up. One thing is clear even to such persons, you cant j'adoube when its not your move.
I strongly disagree with warning then default under 13.4! Why couldn't you settle for warning, and then a time penalty? A default seems a little over-the-top. After all, his mobile phone hasn't gone off... :lol:

Seriously though, I would have thought a time penalty be a bit more appropriate.

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:03 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
E Michael White wrote:One thing is clear even to such persons, you cant j'adoube when its not your move.
Is this strictly true? If I don't notice a misplaced piece until after I have pressed my clock, do I really have to wait until it is my turn to move before adjusting it? It depends on how misplaced the piece is, I suppose. If it is so far off or even on the wrong square (you wouldn't leave your opponent analysing the wrong position), then surely you have to stop the clocks (or even restart your own clock), apologise to your opponent, explain why you think the piece needs adjusting, adjust (with the agreement of the opponent) and then carry on. Of course, you should avoid this as much as possible, but it does happen sometimes. I for one find it difficult to analyse a position if a piece is half-on and half-off a square, and both players should be able to analyse the position regardless of whose move it is.

One item of annoying behaviour I haven't seem mentioned is when the opponent's scoresheet or pen starts encroaching on the board, sometimes nudging into pieces as they do so. That can be annoying. I usually point out the offending objects to my opponent or even move the objects away from the board myself.

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:09 pm
by Paul Cooksey
Slightly tangentially, I was surprised when an IM I know told me he deliberately placed his own pieces a bit off centre when playing an opponent who seemed obsessed with aligning them to dead centre. He felt there was a edge to be gained :) .

I try to place my pieces dead centre, but am now ignoring what my opponent does in case it is a subtle psychological tactic :) .

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:59 pm
by Alex Holowczak
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
E Michael White wrote:One thing is clear even to such persons, you cant j'adoube when its not your move.
Is this strictly true? If I don't notice a misplaced piece until after I have pressed my clock, do I really have to wait until it is my turn to move before adjusting it?
I don't think it's strictly true. I'm under the impression that you can't adjust a piece when your clock is stopped. For example, I often move a piece, adjust any off-centre pieces, and then press my clock. So at least the adjustments are in my time. Recalling the difference between making and completing a move, I think it's true that you can't adjust a piece after you've completed your move, not made your move.

The advantage of doing it this way, is that you don't need to say anything. It's blindingly obvious that you're not touching something with the intention of moving it, because you've already made your move. The problem is that your opponent is entitled to move, so your adjustments could be counter-productive to his aim.

I could be wrong on the above. I await clarification from Mr. Reuben. :)
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:It depends on how misplaced the piece is, I suppose.
Here come merky waters!
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:If it is so far off or even on the wrong square (you wouldn't leave your opponent analysing the wrong position), then surely you have to stop the clocks (or even restart your own clock), apologise to your opponent, explain why you think the piece needs adjusting, adjust (with the agreement of the opponent) and then carry on. Of course, you should avoid this as much as possible, but it does happen sometimes. I for one find it difficult to analyse a position if a piece is half-on and half-off a square, and both players should be able to analyse the position regardless of whose move it is.
I don't think any of this is true. Your opponent hasn't made his move correctly, and he should never have pressed his clock in the first place with the piece half-on, half-off a square. Then you're into the realms of 13.4.

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:31 am
by Stewart Reuben
This is the second time I am writing that some people seem to live in a different universe from me and most other arbiters. Where are all these people who behave badly continually? Still, I suppose it gives arbiters something to do.
4.5a tells us when a move has been made. 6.7a explains when it is completed.
Thus clearly a player can adjust a piece before completing his move, i.e. pushing the clock.
Commonsense tells us this. A player puts a piece on a square. It is poorly placed, possibly ambiguously so. It would be stupid if the player could not correct his error.

A foreign GM continually made his move, pressed the clock and then adjusted the piece. The first time I noticed I did nothing, the second time I warned him, the third time I gave his opponent extra time and told him if it happened again he would be forfeited. There was no fourth time in the event.

Another GM would sometimes keep his hand over the board when it was his move and his clock was going. He didn't seem to realise that his opponent was entitled to think while his clock was going and that he was obstructing his opponent's view of the board.

Such incidents usually only happen in rapid chess.

Stewart Reuben

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:34 pm
by Simon Dixon
A foreign GM continually made his move, pressed the clock and then adjusted the piece. The first time I noticed I did nothing, the second time I warned him, the third time I gave his opponent extra time and told him if it happened again he would be forfeited. There was no fourth time in the event.
A good example of gamesmanship if ever there was one. :)

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:01 pm
by Richard Cowan
I fell asleep during a game a few times (I was tired, OK,) kept waking up, moving without apparent thought, and won.
This must have been very annoying!

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:11 pm
by Andrew Stone
I played a foreign FM who placed his knights so they were facing him. It didn't bother me much but I was very aware of it so I wonder if I wasted time thinking about it nonetheless. I also wonder if I was too keen to take his Knight(s). It was a Trompovsky so this normally happened pretty quickly anyway. Assume he was entitled to place his knights like this but that each player could (saying j'adoube) face the knights where they wanted when their clock was pressed.

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:37 pm
by Dan O'Dowd
Andrew Stone wrote:...but that each player could (saying j'adoube) face the knights where they wanted when their clock was pressed.
My arbity intuition is that a player doing that would face pointlessness; since the original player could then readjust on his own time, and you've got nowhere. If they tend to cause a bother, it'd be better to politely ask they not be placed that way before the game; though you do run the risk of his deliberately doing this as a psychology on you thereafter.

As far as what bothers me most in a game is when people show the lack of respect of either not going into an analysis room or next door after their game, or even worse; shush other people but then talk themselves. This last point was surprisingly prevalent on my side of an international tournament in France last year, though their arbiter was lovely and helpful about it. It doesn't matter that few people tend to complain. If it bothers one person, and it's a serious event going on (especially the final game of a championship) then it drives me up the batting wall. I never shy away from pointedly driving people out of a room with games in, official arbiter or not: gotta protect players in clubs!

Re: Most Annoying Behaviour?

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:39 pm
by Sebastian Stone
Having the same surname as me, but having a higher grading.

That's pretty annoying. :|