Claiming a win on time

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Stewart Reuben
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:32 pm

Simon Dixon >What is the requirement here Stewart? are they required to carry a doctors letter to excuse such behaviour.<

I presume the question was tongue in cheek. But a player whose reactions are off-putting to his opponents might have to be excluded whether or not he had a medical condition. This though is very rare and we have learnt to deal sympathetically with disabled players. The most common problem is that of the knee-jerkers. This is most common among teenage males. Their leg twicthes all the time. That is why it is best not to have a long row of tables. A small gap between every table means that only at most 3 players are annoyed.
Leighton Williams has cystic fibrosis. His heavy breathing can be very off-putting. I moved him to a separate table a couple of times. It has never occurred to me that I would want to see a letter attesting as to his condition or that of anybody else. But I do carry such a note to allow me not to go through metal detectors as I have a defibrillator implant.

Steawrt Reuben

Simon Dixon
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Simon Dixon » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:02 pm

I presume the question was tongue in cheek
Absolutely not, IMO it is the bane of the chess player having to face opponents who are deliberately distracting for no apparent reason except to ruin your concentration.

They should be flogged and jailed for 6 months.

The last part was "tongue in cheek" :)

Mick Norris
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:07 pm

Simon Dixon wrote:
Absolutely not, IMO it is the bane of the chess player having to face opponents who are deliberately distracting for no apparent reason except to ruin your concentration.

They should be flogged and jailed for 6 months.

The last part was "tongue in cheek" :)
Simon

The 6 month bit, just the jailing or the flogging as well? :)
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:00 am

Simon Dixon >it is the bane of the chess player having to face opponents who are deliberately distracting for no apparent reason except to ruin your concentration.<

You clearly live in a different world from me. That may be literally true. My presence may results in people not behaving in such a manner. Also I associate much of the time with stronger and more experienced players. But I have run events for over 1000 players and had virtually no complaints of that nature. nor have I noticed such behaviour among children.
I think you live in a world different from most other chessplayers.
Stewart Reuben

Simon Dixon
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Simon Dixon » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:27 pm

I have run events for over 1000 players and had virtually no complaints of that nature.
I think at the end of the day this is not something that is brought to the attention of arbiters willy nilly unless the disruption is extreme. The most common has to be players who on finishing their game, decide to have a debate about it, then the shushers join in. This is hardly something that warrants the intervention of an arbiter, even if one can be found. This happens so often, I find it is best to ignore it.

Some players may not reaIise that they are being disruptive, like the mumblers or table shakers for eg. Asking them politely to stop usually works 99% of the time.

Then there are the ones who clearly have a medical disorder, who I wouldn't dare question, and some children can be just as big a nuisance but again you forgive them because they do not know any better.

Unless you are playing in a category 22 or above, there will always be a certain level of noise in a tournament venue, especially near the end of a round, that is something you have to live with.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:44 pm

Simon Dixon wrote:I think at the end of the day this is not something that is brought to the attention of arbiters willy nilly unless the disruption is extreme.
I'm sure that's quite true in that however extreme the provocation, it's almost always going to be even more disruptive to get an arbiter involved.

That said, all the 'disturbing' behaviour I've witnessed or personally experienced is not - contrary to your earlier post - deliberate, but at most careless/thoughtless. The biggest group at all, of course, are the people who are entirely unaware of what they are doing, so engrossed are they in the game.

E.g. I once played a guy whose finger tapping on the table grew to such epic proportions it rivalled a Buddy Rich drum solo. This was almost always in my thinking time and almost never in his. He had no medical condition as far as I know and I talked to him after the game and he was a very pleasant guy. I'm quite sure he simply didn't realise he was doing it.

(I did think about joining in, but in the end settle for a quiet word which improved things no end).

In twenty years of chess I've never felt that my opponent was deliberately trying to disturb me.

Simon Dixon
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Simon Dixon » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:47 pm

Mick Norris wrote:[
The 6 month bit, just the jailing or the flogging as well? :)
I think on reflection a fine of up £1000.00 and tagging may suffice, one for FIDE to consider to take their minds off giving arbiters more and more powers of intervention. It is like they have completely forgot that chess is meant to be a game between 2 players. :D

Simon Dixon
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Simon Dixon » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:59 pm

That said, all the 'disturbing' behaviour I've witnessed or personally experienced is not - contrary to your earlier post - deliberate, but at most careless/thoughtless.
Given my past experiences I have my doubts that is why I used the word deliberate.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:06 pm

"Given my past experiences I have my doubts that is why I used the word deliberate."

I am sure it is sometimes, especially when it only happens when your clock is running.
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey

Simon Dixon
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Simon Dixon » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:21 pm

I am sure it is sometimes, especially when it only happens when your clock is running.
Exactly, and nothing happens when it is the OP's turn to move. Also most noticable in critical positions when you have the initiative, never the other way around.

matt_ward
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by matt_ward » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:12 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Simon Dixon wrote:I think at the end of the day this is not something that is brought to the attention of arbiters willy nilly unless the disruption is extreme.
I'm sure that's quite true in that however extreme the provocation, it's almost always going to be even more disruptive to get an arbiter involved.

That said, all the 'disturbing' behaviour I've witnessed or personally experienced is not - contrary to your earlier post - deliberate, but at most careless/thoughtless. The biggest group at all, of course, are the people who are entirely unaware of what they are doing, so engrossed are they in the game.

E.g. I once played a guy whose finger tapping on the table grew to such epic proportions it rivalled a Buddy Rich drum solo. This was almost always in my thinking time and almost never in his. He had no medical condition as far as I know and I talked to him after the game and he was a very pleasant guy. I'm quite sure he simply didn't realise he was doing it.

(I did think about joining in, but in the end settle for a quiet word which improved things no end).

In twenty years of chess I've never felt that my opponent was deliberately trying to disturb me.

Jonathan as much as I would like to agree with you on this point, the last one you mentioned about not ever felt the behaviour of your opponent was deliberate to try and disturb you I have to reject your telling me people just don't realise that their conduct is just not appropriate whilst their game is in progress, I find mind blowing.

Either that or The chess players don't know chess etiquette or are totally naive.

Matt. :o :o :o

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:20 pm

matt_ward wrote:I have to reject your telling me people just don't realise that their conduct is just not appropriate whilst their game is in progress, I find mind blowing.
"Mind blowing" it might be, but I'm not sure exactly what it is that you're trying to express here.

It is true, however, that I've never felt an opponent has ever thought "I'm going to do x, y, z and that will really annoy him and he'll get upset and play bad moves". I have, on the other hand, asked opponents to stop doing x, y, z and just about everything else too.

I don't think it's ever been a deliberate attempt to distract, though. In fact, I'm sure it's not. I *do* think it's sometimes hugely inconsiderate, very careless and thoughtless. But, no, I've never suspected a deliberate ploy.

Simon Dixon
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Simon Dixon » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:00 am

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
But, no, I've never suspected a deliberate ploy.

The way I look at it is, if an opponent can sit quietly when it is their turn to move, then they have no excuse for not doing so when it is your turn to move.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:53 am

And some complaints are a bit weird. I was going for a walk at one event and somebody complained that I was blocking the light on its way to the board...
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Claiming a win on time

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:20 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:And some complaints are a bit weird. I was going for a walk at one event and somebody complained that I was blocking the light on its way to the board...
Actually, I often ask people to move back from my board for exactly that reason. People cast a shadow! This is not something that disturbs everybody, obviously, but it does me so I ask people to move. They always do.


Simon Dixon wrote: The way I look at it is, if an opponent can sit quietly when it is their turn to move, then they have no excuse for not doing so when it is your turn to move.

Oh I agree completely. No excuse at all. That's not the same thing as believing that they're doing whatever it is they're doing with the deliberate intention of putting you off.

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