Subscription concessions?

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Paul Cooksey

Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Paul Cooksey » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:13 pm

Sebastian Stone wrote:...google... plus, of course, my name.
er, having done that out of curiosity, it is not a search I would recommend to those of a sensitive disposition. It appears Sebastian shares his name with an actor of an, erm, non-classical repetoire. :oops:

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David Grobler
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by David Grobler » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:19 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sebastian Stone wrote:...google... plus, of course, my name.
er, having done that out of curiosity, it is not a search I would recommend to those of a sensitive disposition. It appears Sebastian shares his name with an actor of an, erm, non-classical repetoire. :oops:
well...that comment has woken me up....whats the address of google again ?

chrisobee
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by chrisobee » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:23 pm

Paul, to be fair I can see you and one or two others are willing to argue against said poster but there also seems an air of indifference amongst others which rather over rides those of us who might take a more altruistic view.
"Men who for truth and honour's sake
Stand fast and suffer long.
Brave men who work while others sleep,
Who dare while others fly...
They build a nation's pillars deep
And lift them to the sky. " Ralph Waldo Emerson

chrisobee
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by chrisobee » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:25 pm

David Grobler wrote:
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sebastian Stone wrote:...google... plus, of course, my name.
er, having done that out of curiosity, it is not a search I would recommend to those of a sensitive disposition. It appears Sebastian shares his name with an actor of an, erm, non-classical repetoire. :oops:
well...that comment has woken me up....whats the address of google again ?
I'm sure just typing "Sebastian Stone" into your default search engine will work just as well !!
"Men who for truth and honour's sake
Stand fast and suffer long.
Brave men who work while others sleep,
Who dare while others fly...
They build a nation's pillars deep
And lift them to the sky. " Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Sebastian Stone
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Sebastian Stone » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:25 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sebastian Stone wrote:...google... plus, of course, my name.
er, having done that out of curiosity, it is not a search I would recommend to those of a sensitive disposition. It appears Sebastian shares his name with an actor of an, erm, non-classical repetoire. :oops:
:lol:

How do you know that's not me? :wink:
AKA Scott Stone

"Give a man fire and he's warm for a day, set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."

That's Mr Stone to you, f**kface.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:26 pm

Andrew Farthing wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:I'm getting a £2 discount from the Worcestershire Open in July, but paying £2.70 in Game Fee. So again, I'm being overcharged by 70p.
You're quite right, but since the profits from the Worcestershire Open are donated to a designated charity - Age Concern Sandwell this year - your 70p gives its life in a good cause and I thank you for it!
It wasn't meant as a complaint, I don't have a problem with it at all! :)

I have the misfortune of living in "Sandwell", so I can appreciate the problem.
Roger de Coverly wrote:I think you've noticed how few regular Congress players aren't ECF members.
It's my experience that about 40% of congress players are ECF members; most of which are concentrated in the higher sections.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:39 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote: It's my experience that about 40% of congress players are ECF members; most of which are concentrated in the higher sections.
If the ECF is serious about this Bronze, Silver, Gold tiered idea, it needs to get some breakdowns presumably via the grading files about how much it might raise from each membership category and for that matter how its existing members would fit in. Some of the MO people would, I'm fairly sure, be hit with a price increase taking them up to Gold or Silver level. Players who played in as many leagues as available could presumably down-grade to Bronze.

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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:49 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:If the ECF is serious about this Bronze, Silver, Gold tiered idea, it needs to get some breakdowns presumably via the grading files about how much it might raise from each membership category and for that matter how its existing members would fit in.
I took it upon myself to find out those numbers from Messrs Grist and Haddrell, which I've forwarded to Andrew for consideration. I'm not going to publish them here, because I don't want to provide bait for you to argue about. If any of Farthing, Grist or Haddrell choose to, I'll leave that to their prerogative.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:02 am

chrisobee wrote:Paul, to be fair I can see you and one or two others are willing to argue against said poster but there also seems an air of indifference amongst others which rather over rides those of us who might take a more altruistic view.
You are a newbie here, it would seem........

Truth is, many of us wearied of arguing with "said poster" some time ago :?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:10 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:I took it upon myself to find out those numbers from Messrs Grist and Haddrell, which I've forwarded to Andrew for consideration. I'm not going to publish them here, because I don't want to provide bait for you to argue about. If any of Farthing, Grist or Haddrell choose to, I'll leave that to their prerogative.
As it's now something like twelve years since the idea of flat rate memberships was first punted, such an analysis is long overdue.

Mick Norris
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:58 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:£ 6 rather than £ 2.70 is rather more than rounding.

The point being that it's promoting a message about costs and advantages of membership that isn't really the case nationally. Other Congresses don't really care and just add back the profit from any Game Fee savings into the prize fund.

The entry form isn't on line any more, but I don't think St Albans back in April offered any discounts.

I don't believe regular Congress players are particularly fussed one way or the other about saving £ 2.50 or £ 3 on a £ 25 entry fee.

In the Heywood context, most of the local players would be NMS members, so it's very much a £ 6 surcharge, rather than a £ 6 discount. Perhaps it's just intended to discourage GMan :(
The cost of Game Fee is not £2:70 per player, you are confusing it with the amount paid to the ECF

The cost of calculating it, processing the payment, working out whether you have done it fast enough to qualify for the ECF early payment discount etc, at a time when you are trying to catch up with your family and work, which you have neglected due to running a Congress etc

They aren't trying to discourage G Man, but it is useful for them to sign up our players to Lancs :wink:
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:17 am

Mick Norris wrote:The cost of calculating it, processing the payment, working out whether you have done it fast enough to qualify for the ECF early payment discount etc, at a time when you are trying to catch up with your family and work, which you have neglected due to running a Congress etc
I thought the system had been reformed so that you send the grading file to the ECF promptly and they send you the bill. That's the way it ought to work. You would have a very similar problem if the ECF expect you to send them non-member fees, or wrong type of member fees. You have to work out who they are, or get the ECF to do it for you by sending in the data.

Unless you completely ban non-members, you will always have calculation issues if payments to the ECF vary between members and non-members. That's presumably why Chess Scotland charge rating fees at a level similar to Game Fee for every player, Chess Scotland members included. If an organiser offers a discounted entry fee to Chess Scotland members, they pay rating fee at a lower level as compensation for their loss of entry fee income.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Paul McKeown » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:26 am

Ernie Lazenby wrote:In fact they would be happy if chess was free full stop along with everything else in live.(freeloaders-chess being a microcosym of society has its fair share) I think my earlier comment hit a nerve I wonder why?
Sadly, as typical of much of your online output, mister, your contribution to this thread is simply a stereotypical sneer at the enemy you perceive as undermining British society, the neer-do-well, beer swilling lumpenproles who vandalise telephone boxes and gorge at the teat of public welfare. The tabloid press may hardly have changed its public scapegoats and sin eaters over the past century, but then neither have the mental tram rails of their more fervent readers.

When called up on your openly professed attitudes?

Bite back with an uninformed and wide of the mark volley about your interlocutors.

Not for the first time.

Back in your box.
Last edited by Paul McKeown on Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

chrisobee
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by chrisobee » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:27 am

Ernie Lazenby wrote:Just to put the record straight in view of some comments seemingly directed at myself.
People in the north of England know I financially help out people and events. I have a record of paying entry fees to congress's for those who I respect and at times were finding it hard to pay entry fees to congress's and I like to see them play. I also find other ways to help out individuals without them feeling they are getting a hand out. I do it because I love the game what I dont love is moaners, scoungers and complainers who I know can afford to go out drinking but moan about club fees or congress fees. In fact they would be happy if chess was free full stop along with everything else in live.(freeloaders-chess being a microcosym of society has its fair share) I think my earlier comment hit a nerve I wonder why?
I passionatley believe in trying to improve the number of people playing the game locally and nationally and wish some of those who seemingly like to pontificate on here would do the same by positive action not negative words. ( I know who the workers/supporters are who post on here and they have my respect)
Sheer hypocrisy given you said only a few days back :

I have never read so much rubbish as the above. Bottom line, cannot afford to play dont play, one cuts ones cloth accordingly. I can afford to do what I do but when I cannot afford it I wont- simple economics. Bottom line a lot of chess players can pay but wont pay or winge at having to pay its the nature of the beast. They want the game for nothing.

Seems you cannot actually decide what you believe ? What hit a nerve with me at least is this idea that " a lot of chess players can pay but won't pay.. ". That has never, ever been my experience in 40 years and on what evidence do you base that assertion ?
In addition how on earth would you know which people on here, if any, don't back up their words by actions ? I assume giving my time freely to a local school to teach the kids to play chess doesn't count as a worthwhile contribution ? I suggest when you post on here you actually make some effort to back up your assertions, otherwise you just look silly.
"Men who for truth and honour's sake
Stand fast and suffer long.
Brave men who work while others sleep,
Who dare while others fly...
They build a nation's pillars deep
And lift them to the sky. " Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Subscription concessions?

Post by Adam Raoof » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:38 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:I am big enough and ugly enough to look after myself especially where cowards who hide behind a keyboard are concerned. Face to face I doubt they have much fortitude!

An example of the scroungers I refer to. Last year at a northern congress a chess player who was not staying at the hotel where the event was being held walked into the restaraunt and casually helped himself to a free breakfast, when confronted he offered a small version of the actual cost and to keep the hotel management happy the organisers had to make up the difference. I could go on but you get the point. Individuals like these should be driven out of the game they do nothing to help improve an image thats about as low as it gets. Lets not get started on the rag tags who walk around like tramps adding to the poor image (we have visited this topic before)
Having used Google to good effect, I can confirm that Ernie is big and that beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;-)

The truth is that you get plenty of characters like this in most events - not just chess. I have been at funerals where nobody knew the stranger who wandered in off the street and ate most of the sandwiches. What we have to be careful not to do is price out the players who have a genuine need, just because of a few players who can well afford what is a cheap hobby, but would prefer to pay nothing.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
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