July rating list

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cjdemooi
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July rating list

Post by cjdemooi » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:50 am

Congratulations to our top players (especially Gawain Jones who breaks 2600) as I believe the average for our top 6 is a new record at over 2654 (2610 for the top 10 and 2597 for the top 12)

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John Saunders
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Re: July rating list

Post by John Saunders » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:34 am

Yes, that's fine as far as it goes, but we have to keep reminding ourselves that ranking is everything and rating next to nothing when it comes to judging the comparative strengths of countries or national achievement.

Mickey Adams is currently no.28 in the world - exactly the same world ranking that Murray Chandler occupied, with a rating of 2600, on the January 1989 list. However, on that same list England also had numbers 3, 4 and 10 in the world - Short 2650, Speelman 2640 and Nunn 2620. England was then a team chess super-power but could hardly claim that status in 2011.

We have to recalibrate our perception of the significance of rating numbers every few years. For example, in July 2000, there were 11 players rated 2700+ and they were rightly deemed to be the world's elite. Today there are 42 players rated 2700+, some of whose names have barely registered on our consciousness and who would be unlikely to receive an invitation to an elite event.
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Simon Dixon
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Re: July rating list

Post by Simon Dixon » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:11 pm

I got a rating of 2545 on CT ART 4.0 :)

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Ben Purton
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Re: July rating list

Post by Ben Purton » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:18 pm

John Saunders wrote:Yes, that's fine as far as it goes, but we have to keep reminding ourselves that ranking is everything and rating next to nothing when it comes to judging the comparative strengths of countries or national achievement.

Mickey Adams is currently no.28 in the world - exactly the same world ranking that Murray Chandler occupied, with a rating of 2600, on the January 1989 list. However, on that same list England also had numbers 3, 4 and 10 in the world - Short 2650, Speelman 2640 and Nunn 2620. England was then a team chess super-power but could hardly claim that status in 2011.

We have to recalibrate our perception of the significance of rating numbers every few years. For example, in July 2000, there were 11 players rated 2700+ and they were rightly deemed to be the world's elite. Today there are 42 players rated 2700+, some of whose names have barely registered on our consciousness and who would be unlikely to receive an invitation to an elite event.

Could not agree more with the last bit John, it seems every other week there is some former USSR player who pops up and I've never heard of him and he has a rating which 20 years ago he'd be in top 30 in world- The guy who was leading Russian Championship springs to mind. I follow the World Youths etc and never heard of him and then suddenly he is leading Moro and co.


On the other hand I think CJ is valid in his positiveness for British Chess. I think Gawain will be 2650+ and then we will have a possible Bronze medal chance at Olympiads if Luke Mcshane maintains strength now back in work.
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John Saunders
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Re: July rating list

Post by John Saunders » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:25 pm

Yes, England is currently no.16 in FIDE's list of top countries but that doesn't preclude the possibility of team medals, of course. One inspiration for everybody has to be Boris Gelfand - in his 40s, ranked number 12 in the world but playing the best chess of his life and in line for a title match with Vishy next year. So I plead not guilty to any charge of negativity. English chess is in pretty good shape at the moment and it is great to see Gawain making progress.
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matt_ward
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Re: July rating list

Post by matt_ward » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:49 pm

I agree totally with you John, Back in the 1980's we had a extremely strong team with John, Nunn, Jonathan Speelman, Michael Adams, Nigel Short etc, etc.

I think we are still very far behind other countries though places of course like Russia, France, I mean there is a lack of strength in depth in the United Kingdom I feel I mean we only have one player in the top 50 in the world and of which is 2700+ standard.

Congradulations on Gawain Jones though I followed his chess in the Common Wealth Chess Championshp's in South Africa he played some exceptional chess.

I think he has great potential as Ben said of making 2650+ maybe even 2700 he is certainly young enough to make great improvements; although of course it becomes increasingly difficult as you climb the ratings.

Matt.

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Re: July rating list

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:10 pm

matt_ward wrote:I agree totally with you John, Back in the 1980's we had a extremely strong team with John, Nunn, Jonathan Speelman, Michael Adams, Nigel Short etc, etc.
I think Matt said etc, etc where he meant to say Miles, Chandler :)

In my opinion, arguably our number one today should be Matthew Sadler. Its easy to forget how strong he was before he retired. He seemed like the "Gelfand type" who maintain their strength too. It's good to see Luke active recently. But his chess has also been curtailed by work commitments.

I intend no criticism of them. But I think we have to expect to lose our top players. I'll be honest, I would be surprised if both Gawain Jones and David Howell are full time chess professionals in 10 years.

My feeling is that in order to compete in the next few years a country will need to be producing a full team from every generation, not just one or two top players. We are lucky to have Adams and Short supplementing the younger players currently, but there is a clear break in continuity after them.

That said, I am not completely pessimistic. One of the other threads is looking at the success of France. Maybe it is possible for a Western federation to have a structure that supports whole generations of new GMs.

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Re: July rating list

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:01 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
matt_ward wrote:I agree totally with you John, Back in the 1980's we had a extremely strong team with John, Nunn, Jonathan Speelman, Michael Adams, Nigel Short etc, etc.
I think Matt said etc, etc where he meant to say Miles, Chandler :)
Not forgetting Jonathan Mestel.


I'd guess our (england's) - relative to other countries - strongest period was pre-Adams some time around the mid 1980s

Short, Speelman, Nunn, Chandler plus Mestel and one other as reserves.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: July rating list

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:05 pm

Miles played top board for England until the 1986 near-miss, don't forget :wink:
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matt_ward
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Re: July rating list

Post by matt_ward » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:19 pm

Yes Tony Miles did not reach his talent.

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Re: July rating list

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:46 pm

matt_ward wrote:Yes Tony Miles did not reach his talent.
I can't understand why you don't feel embarrassed spouting such gibberish.

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Re: July rating list

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:20 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:Miles played top board for England until the 1986 near-miss, don't forget :wink:
OK, so I guess I'm talking about the late 80s then. I think we hit our peek after Miles left (for AMerica at first if memory serves?).

Didn't we have Short, Spess and Nunn 3rd, 5th and 10th on the elo list at one point, and Chandler also playing in the world cup tournaments.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: July rating list

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:09 pm

Yes, but our best ever Olympiad performance (by some way) remains Dubai 1986.

Of course, we were helped by the USSR being blatantly hampered by internal politics - thus fielding nowhere near their best possible team - but still :wink:
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Adam Raoof
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Re: July rating list

Post by Adam Raoof » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:50 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:Yes, but our best ever Olympiad performance (by some way) remains Dubai 1986.

Of course, we were helped by the USSR being blatantly hampered by internal politics - thus fielding nowhere near their best possible team - but still :wink:
I was there, working on the bulletin with Bob Wade, Les Blackstock and Hugh Myers! Then 14 years later I had the privilege of being the (non-playing) Captain of the men's team in Istanbul 2000, and Short, Speelman and Miles were still in the team. We had our chances.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: July rating list

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:58 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:I was there, working on the bulletin with Bob Wade, Les Blackstock and Hugh Myers! Then 14 years later I had the privilege of being the (non-playing) Captain of the men's team in Istanbul 2000, and Short, Speelman and Miles were still in the team. We had our chances.
Ooh! Any stories you are allowed to tell? If you have some, I can start another thread asking about Istanbul 2000...

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