Using ones own clock

[Martin Benjamin]

I am all in favour of digital clocks, particularly if used with an increment (e.g. 20 minutes plus ten seconds per move rather than all moves in 30 minutes, or 60 mins plus 30 seconds per move rather than 36 moves in 90 minutes) as this avoids quickplay disputes ("attempting to win by normal means" etc.), retains normality (the game is not decided by who is faster at moving the pieces) and produces a result on the night in 99/100 cases without resorting to adjournments or adjudications, if one makes sure that the time control guarantees a minimum of 60 moves.

However, it can be a problem when digital clocks go wrong. In a match last season, approaching the time control, the display faded, and then a minute or two later came back, but in programming mode, when the clock was being examined ( I suspect one player had thumped the clock a bit hard and dislodged the battery). Fortunately both players were gentlemanly enough to agree on how much time was left for each player, but it could have caused a problem. At least with analogue clocks the hands remain where they were.

Not a compelling reason to retain analogue clocks, but we should recognise that digital clocks have some disadvantages.

Martin Benjamin

[IM Jack Rudd]

Actually, for any time control that you could reasonably use an analogue clock for, a digital clock doesn't need the move-counter set. (If, say, you have a time control of 35 moves in 75 minutes, followed by a 15 minute quickplay finish, you just set the DGT at 75 minutes, with both sides' getting an extra 15 minutes when one of the clocks reaches zero.)

Oh yeah, I hadn't thought of that. However, you might actually get there sooner than you think.

E.g. The clock may think you have made 35 moves because you've had to press the clock an additional time when your opponent made an illegal move so you are both really a move behind. In this scenario the clock would give you your extra minutes despite not having made the required number of moves.

Am I missing something?...

Yes. The setting I have just outlined takes no notice of how many times the clock has been pressed. The clock increments when the time reaches 0, not when the moves reach 35. The flag will come up when one side reaches 0, and it's then up to the relevant individuals to determine whether the time control has been reached.

[Sean Hewitt]

However, it can be a problem when digital clocks go wrong. In a match last season, approaching the time control, the display faded, and then a minute or two later came back, but in programming mode, when the clock was being examined ( I suspect one player had thumped the clock a bit hard and dislodged the battery). Fortunately both players were gentlemanly enough to agree on how much time was left for each player, but it could have caused a problem. At least with analogue clocks the hands remain where they were.

To be fair Martin, similar things can and do happen with analogue clocks. I'm sure we can all think of times when one or other clock has run slow. Or we've discovered that one of the clocks isnt working at all (and presumably hasnt been for some time). How about this one though - in a county match I was playing I noticed that the time left for both players looked odd. So I wached the clocks - when it was his move, no problem, his clock was ticking away. But when he pressed his clock it started mine but his kept going at the same time!! Like your players we agreed an amount of time to add to his new clock, but this phenomonon can apply to any device we use whether mechanical or electronic.

[Roger de Coverly]

Jack Rudd wrote

The clock increments when the time reaches 0, not when the moves reach 35. The flag will come up when one side reaches 0, and it's then up to the relevant individuals to determine whether the time control has been reached.

I find this convention a bit annoying. With a mechanical clock you can easily figure out how much time you have for the rest of the game - the only check necessary is whether the first time control has been passed. You're required to be aware of this because of the winding back the clock ceremony.

On a digital clock you have to try and remember whether you noticed the outstanding time increase by 15 or 20 minutes or try and figure it out by reference to the start time of the game and the current time. I've found that making notes on the scoresheet to record the clock times every few moves is my preferred solution.

For example if a league game has a time limit of 30 moves in 75 minutes followed by another 15, the middle game position might be that there are no critical decisions to be made before move 30, therefore both players might target to reach move 30 in an hour of their time from the start of play and as a consequence not pay much attention to the detail of the clock times. Then about 15 minutes into the critical final phase of the game, the clock times are going to be showing a run down to zero - but don't worry it's an illusion and there's another 15 minutes to add.

The standard FIDE limit is now 40 moves in 90 minutes plus an extra 30 minutes - with 30 second increments added from the start. I believe the digital clocks add the extra half hour at 40 moves. So it's w moves in x minutes plus y minutes to finish with an increment of z seconds. In the FIDE control w=40, x=90, y=30, z=30 seconds. These can be changed - for example the Major Open uses w=40,x=80,y=40 and z=60 seconds.

I can only suppose that you cannot have increment style settings with an increment of zero - otherwise the league setting could just be w=30, x=75, y=15, z=0.

The league rules say that 30 moves are played in 75 minutes with an extra 15 added after Black's 30th. There are 3 clubs with digital clocks, two of them use the "extra 15 after 75 minutes" approach. The other club sets the clocks to 75 minutes and then uses the add time button after move 30.

[Sean Hewitt]

I find this convention a bit annoying. With a mechanical clock you can easily figure out how much time you have for the rest of the game - the only check necessary is whether the first time control has been passed. You're required to be aware of this because of the winding back the clock ceremony.

I can only suppose that you cannot have increment style settings with an increment of zero - otherwise the league setting could just be w=30, x=75, y=15, z=0.

You can set increments of zero as you describe if you wish. But there are in fact two reasons why this is not done.

1) The laws of chess. This country applies the laws incorrectly. Almost everyone in England thinks that once black has made his xth move you add on the additional time. This is completely wrong! The laws state (6.3) that immediately after a flag falls, the requirements of 6.2a are checked (whether the minimum number of moves required for the first session have been made). If they have, the additional time is added and play continues. If not, the player who's flag has fallen loses. So you should in fact only add the additional time when a flag has fallen - and this is exactly what digital clocks are designed to do.

2) Practicality. If you set an increment of zero and allow the clock to count moves, you get all sorts of problems if there is an illegal move, or someone forgets to press their clock. The clock is then out of sequence with the actual number of moves made - and will add on the additional time at the incorrect moment.

BTW - The standard FIDE time control is 90 mins plus 30 seconds per move (there is no plus 30 minutes) so the clocks are not required to count moves in this time control.

[Roger de Coverly]

The laws state (6.3) that immediately after a flag falls, the requirements of 6.2a are checked (whether the minimum number of moves required for the first session have been made).

agreed

If they have, the additional time is added and play continues.

I don't see that the laws of chess are drafted to clearly say one way or another whether additional time is added after move x or after expiry of time y. Quickplay finishes were invented before digital clocks and I don't believe anyone waited until flagfall before adding time on a mechanical clock. I think the laws of chess were revised to include quickplay finishes after they had become popular and the established convention in the UK was to add time at the time control.

FIDE move rates change with the whim of the president. I believe the 90 30 rate is now obsolete.

from http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/ ... w=category

There is a single time control for all major FIDE events: 90 minutes for the first 40 moves followed by 30 minutes for the rest of the game with an addition of 30 seconds per move starting from move one.

[Sean Hewitt]

FIDE move rates change with the whim of the president. I believe the 90 30 rate is now obsolete.

You're right - I certainly missed that one!

I don't see that the laws of chess are drafted to clearly say one way or another whether additional time is added after move x or after expiry of time y. Quickplay finishes were invented before digital clocks and I don't believe anyone waited until flagfall before adding time on a mechanical clock. I think the laws of chess were revised to include quickplay finishes after they had become popular and the established convention in the UK was to add time at the time control.

Its quite clear really if one applies a little logic. If the laws state that you dont check that the time control has been reached until a flag has fallen, then you cant very well add more time until you have made that check, can you?!

I cant speak for when the laws as they are currently written came into force - maybe SR can help there.

But I can say that when you have a foreign player in a tournament (and more and more players from Eastern Europe are popping up at weekend events now) and you try to explain to him that you are adding more time, even though no flag has fallen, he gives you a very strange look which says, in any language "These crazy English!"

[Edward Tandi]

I was participating in another rapidplay last weekend, when someone asked me whether I would mind using a digital clock. I prefer digital clocks, so I agreed to play with one. My opponent got a DGT XL out of his plastic bag, unpacked the box, set up the time controls and we were off. No issues whatsoever.

The digital clocks are more accurate, have a larger target area to hit, are easier to see when approaching time controls, they are easier to press and they don't topple over. The analog clocks have a wide ranging set of quirks, such as:

1. One flag falling early. At some point in time the clock has been repaired and one flag is imperceptably shorter.
2. Slightly bent hour hand, causing flag to fall earlier than expected.
3. One clock runs slow. This became evident when one game exceeded the permitted time for the session.
4. Pressing the button sometimes does not start the opponents clock.
5. Pressing the button requires sustained pressure, otherwise you have to press it twice (something blocking inside).
6. Clock appears to be normal, but it stops ticking after a while. You wind it up a bit more, but this doesn't help much. Seems to require a thump to set it in motion.
7. Hour hands misaligned, misleading using long time controls.
8. Make abnormal noises (distracting).

I think as the price of digital clocks continue to fall (some are already comparable to analog clocks), clock replacements will be digital. In 5 years time I expect digital clocks will be the norm. The only negative I can think of is that they require batteries.

Those who oppose digital clocks will probably have the option of using an analog one if they really want to, but I expect most of them will go through a slightly "uncomfortable" learning phase, after which they become enlightened.

[Phil Neatherway]

With a digital clock, do you get any warning if the battery is running low?

[Sean Hewitt]

With a digital clock, do you get any warning if the battery is running low?

Yep - theres a warning on the display. When that pops up you still have about 100 hours of life left though, so you should never run out of battery life during a game!

[Charles W. Wood]

With a digital clock, do you get any warning if the battery is running low?

Yep - theres a warning on the display. When that pops up you still have about 100 hours of life left though, so you should never run out of battery life during a game!

Really, even on the DGT XL types. WOW. I bought DGT clocks so I could get used to using them, I like the idea of Digital Clocks but had only ever seen one before I got mine. I do feel for those who like the Analogue clocks, its all I've ever used. If there was a preference to how a Digital clock should look I would have made the LCD screen larger a put a full sized clock face about each digital timer, but I don't make them so what do I know.

[E Michael White]

I don’t think electronic increment modes are practical for small increments less than say 20 secs, such as in Rapidplay or 3 hour League games where players are likely to be living on the increment in the later stages.

The major difficulty is that electronic clocks cannot be used in compliance with FIDE rule 7.3 which requires a player to replace pieces he has knocked over in his own time. With non increment modes you simply restart the opponents clock until they have sorted out the bits on the board; if that is done in increment mode you just give your opponent extra time. If a player does not replace pieces in their own time you could be losing seconds and ultimately the game.

FIDE have approved certain electronic clocks but the rules committees are usually thinking in terms of longer sessions of 5 hours where players do not get time pressure so often in increment modes.

[Edward Tandi]

I don’t think electronic increment modes are practical for small increments less than say 20 secs, such as in Rapidplay or 3 hour League games where players are likely to be living on the increment in the later stages.

The major difficulty is that electronic clocks cannot be used in compliance with FIDE rule 7.3 which requires a player to replace pieces he has knocked over in his own time. With non increment modes you simply restart the opponents clock until they have sorted out the bits on the board; if that is done in increment mode you just give your opponent extra time. If a player does not replace pieces in their own time you could be losing seconds and ultimately the game.

Electronic clocks don't have to operate in increment mode. In the rapidplay I referred to earlier, the electronic clock simply replaced the analog one, using exactly the same time controls.

The CCF rapidplay uses 20 minutes + 10 seconds. I have found that to be acceeptable too.

[E Michael White]

Edward Tandi : I wasn't especially answering your point concerning rapidplay but pointing out some of the places where electronic clocks fall short IMO.

You say you find 20 minutes + 10 seconds ok in Rapidplay. What do you do when you have 12 secs on your clock and your opponent 2 secs, in one arm action he moves in such a way that he knocks over pieces including the one he moved so you do not know where he moved and also presses the clock. Of course he now has 12 secs on his clock ? Do you ignore FIDE rule 7.3 ?

I believe one of the rapidplays in the British Championship is now played with increments so I don't take part unless I am simply there as a car driver for others.

I marginally prefer digital for longplay games. However you say you can see no disadvantages except the requirement for batteries. Apart from those mentioned by others I would suggest also:-

When digital clocks go wrong they usually do so in a big way. For example if the clock is hit too hard both displays sometimes go to 0 - 1 and the times are completely lost. This is apparently quite common with one batch of clocks. If an analogue clock were broken by hitting it too hard it would probably still be possible to read the times and transfer to a new clock.

When digital clocks go wrong the owners are usually reluctant to get them fixed or to throw them out because of the cost involved so they resurface in another game.

Do not assume that digital clocks are easier to read. With variable focus glasses an electronic display viewed obliquely can be very difficult to read.

[Edward Tandi]

You say you find 20 minutes + 10 seconds ok in Rapidplay. What do you do when you have 12 secs on your clock and your opponent 2 secs, in one arm action he moves in such a way that he knocks over pieces including the one he moved so you do not know where he moved and also presses the clock. Of course he now has 12 secs on his clock ? Do you ignore FIDE rule 7.3 ?

I think my first instinct would be to press the clock and ask the opponent to adjust the pieces. If they knock pieces over again, or if they press their clock again (without having adjusted the pieces), I would certainly stop the clock and ask for the arbiter's assistance.

It is true that they have gained 10 seconds (less because they have to adjust pieces), but then so have I.