CJ Banned?

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:10 pm

I have resisted getting involved in this car crash of a thread so far, save to say William has just said everything that needs to be said.

As for some of the other "contributions" to it, the only appropriate response is silence :( :o :x :roll: :evil: :twisted:
Last edited by Matt Mackenzie on Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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matt_ward
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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by matt_ward » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:10 pm

Well lets get this right, I think it was highly inappropriate for CJ to be wearing a "Stonewall t- shirt why on earth is he making a Advert for this as a president he should have some morals, wasn't it true he has also before put something on the ECF website about him running a marathon for this charity trying to collect money for his marathon for "Stonewall."

I just don't think it looked good him wearing that t- shirt so evidently, I imagine some of the top players made a complaint, or just the general public, either that or Roger Edwards possibly banned him.

Matt.

William Metcalfe
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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by William Metcalfe » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:18 pm

Thank you Matt Mackenzie i will add the bigots did not win my oldest son gained 11 gces then went to 6th form college where he gained 3 A levels 2 As and a B he declined to go to uni and has basically travelled the world for the last 7 years.This will suprise a lot of people he has faced less bigotry in Africa the middle east or the sub continent than he has in the so called educated and liberal Britain and Europe
I am speaking here for myself and not the NCCU which i am now president of

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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by Peter Constantinou » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:20 pm

matt_ward wrote:Well lets get this right, I think it was highly inappropriate for CJ to be wearing a "Stonewall t- shirt why on earth is he making a Advert for this as a president he should have some morals, wasn't it true he has also before put something on the ECF website about him running a marathon for this charity trying to collect money for his marathon for "Stonewall."
Matt.
I suspect it's rather because CJ has "some morals" that he campaigns for tolerance and any complaint against his choice of shirt was completely inappropriate. I personally feel completely comfortable with the ECF and British chess being used as a platform to promote a message of tolerance.

Given the man's personal commitment, both in terms of finance and organisation, to the event that culminated in the rapid duel between Adams and Short this morning, it seems to me that any complaint was not only unacceptable, but also an ungrateful insult.

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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by matt_ward » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:22 pm

Well Can you really think CJ's actions are right. I do not think Paul was being Homophobic I genuinely think he was right, It is not appropriate for him to be advertising his charity whilst being at the British, It gives the wrong impressions and just imagine what the juniors and parents of the juniors thought.

I think this matter should be investigated further. I mean it would have the same effect him someone was wearing a extremist t- shirt or a very right wing one.

THese days peope accept people for whom they are and this has improved over the course of the years. I think looking back on things yesterday CJ will regret wearing that T- shirt he certainly won't do it again!

Matt.

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Sebastian Stone
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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by Sebastian Stone » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:22 pm

Meh, I can see one objection that trumps the "think of the children" defense.

The prizegiving is about chess. Not about any messages that the prize giver wants to give out, whether they be in support of homosexuality, the English defense league or freeing Tibet.

On the other hand perhaps we can set this is a new tradition with everybody getting T-Shirts so if they win they can promote whatever message they want. An added incentive!

BTW, this isn't about the message on the T-shirt, it's about there being a message on a T-Shirt.

So, for you homophobes.

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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:25 pm

matt_ward wrote:just imagine what the juniors and parents of the juniors thought
What are you suggesting that they thought? They might have thought all sorts of things.

(And given that the matter is now in the newspapers - if they didn't want to know that the President of the ECF is a gay man who promotes gay equality, they certainly do now.)
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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:26 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:As for some of the other "contributions" to it, the only appropriate response is silence
This might be true. But I worry about it being seen as assent. So before i take the advice:
Andrew Camp wrote:At the risk of being shot down, I agree with this post 100%.
I'll repeat I think the first part is factually incorrect. I note Andrew's signature indicates he is involved in education. Should he need to deal with homophobic bullying, he will see Stonewall prepared guidance at the governments request. William Metcalfe makes the case for its importance very movingly. Stonewall are an organisation with completely different methods to, for example Outrage! .
matt_ward wrote:... I imagine some of the top players made a complaint, or just the general public, either that or Roger Edwards possibly banned him.
I don't think Matt should speculate contrary to CJs own account on page 9, and particularly should avoid mentioning individuals whose role is unknown. As I said, I hope the ECF clarify further.

Mike Gunn
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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by Mike Gunn » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:30 pm

I have just seen this thread after driving back down south from Sheffield. I arrived at the playoff in the middle of the 2nd game so was oblivious to what had happened earlier. In my role as ECF non-executive chairman I am suggesting the board makes a statement about this matter (this is now being discussed).

Meanwhile, in a personal capacity I would like to express my support for CJ and say that I feel it is a pity he didn't present the prizes. I think the person who suggested that it was inappropriate for him to present the prizes wearing that T-shirt was wrong to do so. However, I hope that everyone will continue in their current roles (including CJ and the person who made the suggestion to him). The chess world contains a variety of people with different attitudes to dress codes and social/ political matters. It is important that we all come together in a spirit of mutual tolerance to promote chess and I trust that we will soon be able to put this matter behind us.

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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by benedgell » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:31 pm

The greatest British Championships in years has ended in English Chess as a collective being accused of homophobia in at least one national newspaper. A fine advert for potential sponsors.
Last edited by benedgell on Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by matt_ward » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:32 pm

Out of curiosity how did CJ get elected as ECF president; And why did the previous ECF president stand down.

I think Boris must of felt obligued to hold that sign, I mean christians don't believe in homosexuality do they, and it's not condemned in the bible from my knowledge.


I must stress though I am not homophobic and I know people that are gay and I treat them like anyone else with respect.

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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by Andrew Camp » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:37 pm

Martin Regan wrote:Andrew Camp wrote:
At the risk of being shot down I agree with the above
Your surname has done that for you :P

It was a selfish decision to wear the shirt (the moment of triumph for others should not be hijacked for one's own ego) and a very stupid decision to ban it. For the ban was not because of the t-shirt nor because of a slogan, but because it was a gay slogan.

And that is profoundly stupid.
Yeah, yeah heard them all before about my name. :p :p :p

I said earlier on in this thread that there seemed to be a lack of common sense on both sides here.
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Sebastian Stone
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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by Sebastian Stone » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:38 pm

matt_ward wrote:Out of curiosity how did CJ get elected as ECF president; And why did the previous ECF president stand down.

I think Boris must of felt obligued to hold that sign, I mean christians don't believe in homosexuality do they, and it's not condemned in the bible from my knowledge.


I must stress though I am not homophobic and I know people that are gay and I treat them like anyone else with respect.
Wow, erm...you're all over the place here.

I'm not aware of how the ECF presidents are elected, but I assume he ran for the office and got more votes than anyone else amongst those who could vote. Yes, I know there is a vote.

Err, the former president stepped down because...I've got no idea.

Meh, it wasn't like anyone was holding a gun to Boris's head.

I'm sure christians acknowledge that homosexuality exists...

Generally the bible is considered to be against homosexuality. There is, of course, debate on this issue. Generally christians who don't agree with homosexuality use the bible as support, and so do those who accept it.
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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by matt_ward » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:39 pm

I fully support CJ also, it is just the simple point I was making that the t- shirt he was wearing was inappropriate. However I hope he continues with his important role, and I think they could of politely asked CJ purely just not to have worn that t-shirt rather than banning him.

I think this thread is not going to help find sponsorships and it is sending the wrong type of message out to parents and global, it is upsetting to see the sort of types of chess players which are very prejudice and untolerable against homosexuality.

I do in advance hope the arbiter that banned CJ for turning up on the final day is going to send an apology in due course.

As I think he possibly did over step the mark.
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Andrew Camp
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Re: CJ Banned?

Post by Andrew Camp » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:40 pm

Sebastian Stone wrote:
I'm sure christians acknowledge that homosexuality exists...

Generally the bible is considered to be against homosexuality. There is, of course, debate on this issue. Generally christians who don't agree with homosexuality use the bible as support, and so do those who accept it.
With tongue firmly in cheek here (my own...oh god, stop digging) I listened to a Frankie Boyle show last night and he pointed out that, "The Bible says that all homosexuals should be stoned...well I'm sure that helps."

Don't flame me, just trying to lighten the mood.

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