Eliminating/discouraging draws

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Colin Patterson
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Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Colin Patterson » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:14 pm

I'm curious to know if those on this forum support ...

a)The Kasimdzhanov proposal - A classical game followed in the event of a draw by a rapid then blitz play off until a decisive outcome is reached - scored 1 pt for winner and 0 pts for loser.

b)Bilbao Rules - basically the football scoring method adopted by the London Chess Classic i.e. 3pts for a win, 1pt for a draw, 0 pts for a loss.

c)The Shipov proposal - a hybrid Kasimdzhanov proposal and modified football scoring system, where winner of the classical game gets 3 pts (and loser 0 pts) or, if drawn, the ensuing blitz play-off results in 2 pts for winner and 1 pt for loser.

d)Leaving things just as they are - 1 pt, 0.5 pts or 0pts - respectively - win, draw or lose.

Please see much fuller and properly reasoned explanations on the 'Chessbase' website, where it is promised they are about to publish their own simpler counter-suggestion. So get ready for an option e) also!

I'd probably give Shipov's proposal a try, but can imagine that noise will be the main problem, compared with the status quo.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:48 pm

Colin Patterson wrote:d)Leaving things just as they are - 1 pt, 0.5 pts or 0pts - respectively - win, draw or lose.
Given that most of the contributors to the forum are players rather than spectators, I think they would take the view:-
There are three results in chess, get over it.
Were chess ever to be "solved", surely the verdict would be "Black forces a draw with best play". If you regard the initial position as a mutual zugswang, the verdict would be "White forces a draw with best play".

Paul McKeown
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Paul McKeown » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:53 pm

Roger,

100% agreement here.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:12 pm

If chess "abolished" draws, then IMO (and that of many others too, I suspect) it would effectively no longer be chess. Nor is there any need to make stalemate a "win" or any of the other nonsense touted recently :roll:

What caused this outbreak of hysteria?? Of course, it was the recent farcical Candidates matches - in other words, it has nothing to do with draws per se, and everything to do with FIDE short-sightedness, pig-headedness and incompetence :evil:

More recent tournaments (Dortmund, Russian Championships, Women's Grand Prix) have shown just how much chess is *really* "played out" to a "draw death".

Not at all, is the answer. Put this nonsense in the rubbish bin where it belongs, and always will!
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Richard James
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Richard James » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:20 pm

90 years ago, in 1921, Emanual Lasker, miffed at just having lost his world title to Capablanca, wrote: "The fate of chess is approaching. Chess in its present form will die the death of the draw. New rules will have to be made, to set new difficulties, to create new mysteries, for the old game cannot be allowed to die."

The British Chess Magazine replied: "Forty years ago, and very possibly considerably longer, self-constituted prophets were lamenting over the decay of brilliancy and the triumph of mechanical skill in chess, and were suggesting various ways of brightening (it sounds like cricket!) and altering the game."

Nonsense is indeed what it is.

Ian Kingston
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Ian Kingston » Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:38 pm

Greg Shahade also has some suggestions. But it's all nonsense - the only significant problem is the short draw between players who are being paid an appearance fee, and Sofia Rules deal with that quite nicely.

LozCooper

Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by LozCooper » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:14 pm

Ian Kingston wrote:Greg Shahade also has some suggestions. But it's all nonsense - the only significant problem is the short draw between players who are being paid an appearance fee, and Sofia Rules deal with that quite nicely.
It deals with it in the sense that players can't agree a quick draw but it doesn't, as far as I'm aware, do anything to stop a quick draw by repetition. It would probably effect the player's future invitations though.

Andrew Stone
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Andrew Stone » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:02 pm

A lot of these no draws comments are for the benefit of spectators. Chess is primarily a game for the participants. If my GM opponent tomorrow in the last round of the Vienna Open is reading this, no I am definately not of the opinion that short draws aren't acceptable :lol: (I'm not doing stunningly well btw just been lucky/unlucky with the pairing)

LozCooper

Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by LozCooper » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:30 pm

Andrew Stone wrote:A lot of these no draws comments are for the benefit of spectators. Chess is primarily a game for the participants. If my GM opponent tomorrow in the last round of the Vienna Open is reading this, no I am definately not of the opinion that short draws aren't acceptable :lol: (I'm not doing stunningly well btw just been lucky/unlucky with the pairing)
For the benefit of anyone not following the Vienna Open which finishes tomorrow:
http://chess-results.com/tnr42449.aspx? ... =1&flag=30

Andrew Stone
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Andrew Stone » Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:02 pm

Don't know why I'm giving this link cause I'm always terrified of losing mega quickly when my game is on the innerweb but here is the live games link http://www.members.aon.at/schach1/live/bundesliga.htm The right hand side gives options for boards up to 36. I'm on 32 but don't look! It could get nasty!
I'd really recommend Vienna Open to anyone. Not even the majority of GMs would ever play in a better venue than this. Maybe I'll do a report on the tournament somewhere- not the games etc but more as a chess tourist guide for anyone that fancies thinking about playing when it is on again in 2 years time.

James Coleman
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by James Coleman » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:34 pm

Sweet, thanks for the link Andrew, I'll be tuning in to that tomorrow! Good luck!

Ian Thompson
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:05 am

Andrew Stone wrote:I'd really recommend Vienna Open to anyone. Not even the majority of GMs would ever play in a better venue than this.
Really? I played 2 years ago. While the playing conditions on the top 40-ish roped off boards were good, the same couldn't be said of the remaining 150-ish boards. The playing conditions were very cramped. Fortunately, I played most of my games in the roped off area.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:34 am

Andrew Stone wrote:but here is the live games link http://www.members.aon.at/schach1/live/bundesliga.htm
The top board game featured a GM named Petrov. A draw was agreed in 8 moves. Appropriate somehow for a thread about discouraging draws.

Andrew Stone
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Andrew Stone » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:15 am

James Coleman wrote:Sweet, thanks for the link Andrew, I'll be tuning in to that tomorrow! Good luck!
Cheers James!

Andrew Stone
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws

Post by Andrew Stone » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:18 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Andrew Stone wrote:I'd really recommend Vienna Open to anyone. Not even the majority of GMs would ever play in a better venue than this.
Really? I played 2 years ago. While the playing conditions on the top 40-ish roped off boards were good, the same couldn't be said of the remaining 150-ish boards. The playing conditions were very cramped. Fortunately, I played most of my games in the roped off area.
I've played half of my games in the non-roped off section. Didn't find it cramped and I am a 6ft 5. Maybe there is more space than last time. Even if it was cramped the venue is still spectacular.

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