Just a calm 6. d3 then what does Black do?Paul Cooksey wrote:I should just clarify; our analytical efforts are aimed at finding gambits so unsound that there is no possibility of a draw.Geoff Chandler wrote:First opening TN from team Chandler & Cooksey.
The Evans Gambit. You play Black,After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 Bxb4 5. c3 You do not move the Bishop but instead play 5...f5!
Eliminating/discouraging draws
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
Cheers
Carl Hibbard
Carl Hibbard
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
Not sure I believe that.Geoff Chandler wrote:The Evans Gambit. You play Black,
After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 Bxb4 5. c3
[...snip...]
You do not move the Bishop but instead play 5...f5!
[...snip...]
It's an old idea from the Blackburne era which I introduced the RHP players too.
Taking the Bishop is very dodgy.
6. cxb4 fxe4 (what else?) 7. b5. You'll really have to tell me what the problem is for White, as I don't see it.
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
Well he wanted to watch the Arsenal - Liverpool game, but might have regretted it since he's an Arsenal supporterRoger de Coverly wrote:The top board game featured a GM named Petrov. A draw was agreed in 8 moves. Appropriate somehow for a thread about discouraging draws.Andrew Stone wrote:but here is the live games link http://www.members.aon.at/schach1/live/bundesliga.htm
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
It's a shame. If white had to play 7. Ng1, then black would presumably have quite sensible compensation for the piece after 7...d5, at least for a fast game. Alas, 7.b5 does just seem to be a piece up and winning easily.Paul McKeown wrote:Not sure I believe that.Geoff Chandler wrote:The Evans Gambit. You play Black,
After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 Bxb4 5. c3
[...snip...]
You do not move the Bishop but instead play 5...f5!
[...snip...]
It's an old idea from the Blackburne era which I introduced the RHP players too.
Taking the Bishop is very dodgy.
6. cxb4 fxe4 (what else?) 7. b5. You'll really have to tell me what the problem is for White, as I don't see it.
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
Hi Peter.
"It's a shame. If white had to play 7. Ng1..."
Which is a very common response played by first time facers.
Carl's honest 6.d3 looks like another plausible response.
They cannot switch on a box and look for a solution OTB.
You see the colour drain from their face as they flick over pages
of computer enchanced theory and find no answer.
It's move 6 in an opening invented 180 years ago and they don't know what to do?
Their opponent is grinning is like a wide-eyed maniac.
"...quite sensible compensation for the piece."
You are not looking for sensible compensation for the piece, there is none.
Your opponent will give it to you. Have 100% faith in your opponent too blunder.
Think about it.
Every game you have ever won has been because your opponent has blundered.
The theory is water tight. Players do blunder.
Your very own P.?? W?? L.?? D?? record proves it.
This 6.cxb4 and 7 b5 nonsense is Borg bedroom play.
How many time are you going to move that pawn in the opening?
You sac the b-pawn in the Evans after 6.cxb4 you have it back on the b-file.
That is not the way Captain Evans (Bless him) planned it.
The thread is about 'Eliminating/Discouraging draws.'
This bland insipid play 6.cxb4 and b5 stuff encourages them.
The obvious and best response is 6.d4! Development!
Up and at 'em, over the top we go. You are game for a laugh then so am I.
The first one to waste a tempo captuiring a piece losses.
Where is your lust for adventure, your Corinthian Spirit.........your sense of humour?
And anway....
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 Bxb4 5. c3 f5 6. cxb4 fxe4 7. b5 exf3
8. bxc6 Qh4 9. Bb3 Qe4+ 10. Kf1 fxg2+ 11. Kg1 gxh1=R mate
Hallelujah!
"It's a shame. If white had to play 7. Ng1..."
Which is a very common response played by first time facers.
Carl's honest 6.d3 looks like another plausible response.
They cannot switch on a box and look for a solution OTB.
You see the colour drain from their face as they flick over pages
of computer enchanced theory and find no answer.
It's move 6 in an opening invented 180 years ago and they don't know what to do?
Their opponent is grinning is like a wide-eyed maniac.
"...quite sensible compensation for the piece."
You are not looking for sensible compensation for the piece, there is none.
Your opponent will give it to you. Have 100% faith in your opponent too blunder.
Think about it.
Every game you have ever won has been because your opponent has blundered.
The theory is water tight. Players do blunder.
Your very own P.?? W?? L.?? D?? record proves it.
This 6.cxb4 and 7 b5 nonsense is Borg bedroom play.
How many time are you going to move that pawn in the opening?
You sac the b-pawn in the Evans after 6.cxb4 you have it back on the b-file.
That is not the way Captain Evans (Bless him) planned it.
The thread is about 'Eliminating/Discouraging draws.'
This bland insipid play 6.cxb4 and b5 stuff encourages them.
The obvious and best response is 6.d4! Development!
Up and at 'em, over the top we go. You are game for a laugh then so am I.
The first one to waste a tempo captuiring a piece losses.
Where is your lust for adventure, your Corinthian Spirit.........your sense of humour?
And anway....
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 Bxb4 5. c3 f5 6. cxb4 fxe4 7. b5 exf3
8. bxc6 Qh4 9. Bb3 Qe4+ 10. Kf1 fxg2+ 11. Kg1 gxh1=R mate
Hallelujah!
Last edited by Geoff Chandler on Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
8 Qxf3 (you'd like that move geoff, ignoring the piece and threatening an f7 mate instead) seems far more threatening
True glory lies in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read.
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
Geoff,
Borg bedroom play, my granny's Isle of Harris.
It's flipping obvious. 6... fxe4 attacks the Nf3. 7. Nf3-g1 is obviously unattractive, yet there is no other place to move the knight to. The knight wants to go to e5, possibly to support operations against the Black king with the Bc4 and by Qd1-h5, but it is prevented from this by the Nc6. Therefore the most logical course of action is to attack the knight on c6, either to drive it away, allowing Nf3-e5, or simply to exchange knights for a pawn each, leaving White a piece up and Black's position a smoking ruin.
Actually, that move b4-b5 isn't even original. I'm not sure which opening I've seen it in, but the idea leaped out of the board at me. I've seen it before in some other line.
6. d2-d4 is also a fine and logical move, but, I really think your statement that taking the bishop is "very dodgy" is itself very dodgy. Personally I would prefer the extra piece after 6. cxb4 fxe4 7. b5, but I would also be happy with White's typical Evan's Gambit lead in development, coupled with Black's self-inflicted gash.
The whole idea of 5... f7-f5 is simply a trap for gamblers. Only a gambler would bet in that way on their opponent being clueless. Might work at 1700 level, probably not. Very unlikely to work at 2000 level.
You do talk a load of fanny at times, Geoff. A lot of the time, in fact.
But keep talking.
Borg bedroom play, my granny's Isle of Harris.
It's flipping obvious. 6... fxe4 attacks the Nf3. 7. Nf3-g1 is obviously unattractive, yet there is no other place to move the knight to. The knight wants to go to e5, possibly to support operations against the Black king with the Bc4 and by Qd1-h5, but it is prevented from this by the Nc6. Therefore the most logical course of action is to attack the knight on c6, either to drive it away, allowing Nf3-e5, or simply to exchange knights for a pawn each, leaving White a piece up and Black's position a smoking ruin.
Actually, that move b4-b5 isn't even original. I'm not sure which opening I've seen it in, but the idea leaped out of the board at me. I've seen it before in some other line.
6. d2-d4 is also a fine and logical move, but, I really think your statement that taking the bishop is "very dodgy" is itself very dodgy. Personally I would prefer the extra piece after 6. cxb4 fxe4 7. b5, but I would also be happy with White's typical Evan's Gambit lead in development, coupled with Black's self-inflicted gash.
The whole idea of 5... f7-f5 is simply a trap for gamblers. Only a gambler would bet in that way on their opponent being clueless. Might work at 1700 level, probably not. Very unlikely to work at 2000 level.
You do talk a load of fanny at times, Geoff. A lot of the time, in fact.
But keep talking.
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
More than just plausible, what is your move?Geoff Chandler wrote:Carl's honest 6.d3 looks like another plausible response.
Cheers
Carl Hibbard
Carl Hibbard
Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
I don't think he was being entirely serious, viz the comment.. 'Where is ... your sense of humour?'.
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
Well, I think Geoff likes to teach younger and weaker chess players. But I would treat 5... f5 more as the sort of rubbish one should avoid and then explain why. It's a move with a bad attitude, it treats the opponent with disrespect, the message is "hey sucker, you're a sap". You won't get far in chess with that mentality.Justin Hadi wrote:I don't think he was being entirely serious, viz the comment.. 'Where is ... your sense of humour?'.
I lost my sense of humour with the "borg bedroom play" comment, admittedly perhaps an over reaction, but if you've seen the move before it is more accurate to label it "thematic".
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
Even this idea that you never play b4-b5 in the Evans is a little bit wide of the mark.Geoff Chandler wrote:This 6.cxb4 and 7 b5 nonsense is Borg bedroom play.
How many time are you going to move that pawn in the opening?
You sac the b-pawn in the Evans after 6.cxb4 you have it back on the b-file.
That is not the way Captain Evans (Bless him) planned it.
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4!? Bb6
White avoids the immediate 5. b5, 6. Nxe5 because of 6... Qf6 with characteristic counterplay against f2, but sometimes plays an old variation beginning
5. a4 a6 6. Bb2 d6 7. b5
Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
That's a matter of opinion. Ljubojevic got to #3 in the world playing risky chess. OK not that risky, but weaker players if they see success/enjoy playing like this can always tone it down later.Paul McKeown wrote:Well, I think Geoff likes to teach younger and weaker chess players. But I would treat 5... f5 more as the sort of rubbish one should avoid and then explain why. It's a move with a bad attitude, it treats the opponent with disrespect, the message is "hey sucker, you're a sap". You won't get far in chess with that mentality.Justin Hadi wrote:I don't think he was being entirely serious, viz the comment.. 'Where is ... your sense of humour?'.
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Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
Risky is a poor synonym for crap.Justin Hadi wrote:risky
Ljubojevic never played garbage: he played well researched sharp lines. There is a world of difference.Justin Hadi wrote:Ljubojevic got to #3 in the world playing risky chess.
If they play stuff like that, they might beat other weak players, but they will regularly get their heads kicked in by fairly average club players. That can be quite discouraging. If Uncle Geoff then palms them off with his next wheeze, they'll end up nowhere.Justin Hadi wrote:weaker players if they see success/enjoy playing like this can always tone it down later.
Re: Eliminating/discouraging draws
If they're weak it's gonna happen anyway... And it might be a good intro to gambit play. Garbage is a matter of opinion as well, Korchnoi considers the King's Indian garbage. What's garbage at one level works well at other levels, do you consider the Nescafe Frappe attack garbage? Another unsound sac which works at 200 level plus?Paul McKeown wrote: If they play stuff like that, they might beat other weak players, but they will regularly get their heads kicked in by fairly average club players. That can be quite discouraging.