I think it is well known that Lorin is an excellent coach.
As for labelling a move as "junior", I hardly see the problem even if the term is unusual. If you ask an adult why he played a certain move, you generally get a reasoned answer, even if it is not a good answer. But often juniors reply in respect of certain moves "I don't know" or "I've always been told to do this" etc.
It is not like Gary Kasparov who once said that Salov played homosexual moves ...
Does publishing games give anyone an advantage?
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Jonathan Rogers
- Posts: 4653
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:26 pm
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Jon D'Souza-Eva
Re: Does publishing games give anyone an advantage?
Namely 12. ... Bd4 in this game:Jonathan Rogers wrote:It is not like Gary Kasparov who once said that Salov played homosexual moves ...
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Christopher Kreuzer
- Posts: 8820
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
- Location: London
Re: Does publishing games give anyone an advantage?
I thought in the article he said the other junior was his pupil?Adam Ashton wrote:In this context it is clearly being used to describe a move that looks logical enough but does not consider the long term aims of his position. Anyone with experience coaching juniors will know exactly what he means as this is very common(yes it happens at adult too but not so much). There is nothing remotely offensive about the annotations except presumably that they are about a game which the junior in question lost and he feels slightly 'betrayed' by his coach. I would suggest that his coach picked the game exactly for it's instructional value and he should stop whining and pay attention.
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Adam Ashton
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:37 pm
Re: Does publishing games give anyone an advantage?
I thought in the article he said the other junior was his pupil?[/quote]
Right you are. I'm sorry I misunderstood, I thought that the whole point that he had been part of some coaching group with Lorin. So in fact there weren't any grounds for offense whatsoever
Right you are. I'm sorry I misunderstood, I thought that the whole point that he had been part of some coaching group with Lorin. So in fact there weren't any grounds for offense whatsoever
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Sabrina Chevannes
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 1:53 pm
Re: Does publishing games give anyone an advantage?
My guess is that Krishna is more upset with the timing of the article and how it affected his son's game in the British Championships more than what was actually written.
I think that people don't realise how others can get affected by words or criticism just because they don't react that way themselves. I know that by saying this I am inviting people to say: "Then they should grow up" or "then they shouldn't play the game if they can't handle it", but I don't believe this to be true. Just because Rohan got upset by this, doesn't mean he shouldn't be playing. He is still talented, he just has feelings.
He doesn't like to lose and to have his loss highlighted and so he took it badly. This is normal adult behaviour let alone junior. Ok I think that Lorin didn't mean it to be offensive perhaps, but we shouldn't criticise a 10 year old for having feelings, even if we don't think anything in the article is offensive, as Rohan clearly did.
I think that people don't realise how others can get affected by words or criticism just because they don't react that way themselves. I know that by saying this I am inviting people to say: "Then they should grow up" or "then they shouldn't play the game if they can't handle it", but I don't believe this to be true. Just because Rohan got upset by this, doesn't mean he shouldn't be playing. He is still talented, he just has feelings.
He doesn't like to lose and to have his loss highlighted and so he took it badly. This is normal adult behaviour let alone junior. Ok I think that Lorin didn't mean it to be offensive perhaps, but we shouldn't criticise a 10 year old for having feelings, even if we don't think anything in the article is offensive, as Rohan clearly did.
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Geoff Chandler
- Posts: 3492
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
- Location: Under Cover
Re: Does publishing games give anyone an advantage?
Hi Sabrina.
"Ok I think that Lorin didn't mean it to be offensive..."
Lorin was not offensive period.
That note was backed up with experience of teaching juniors he nailed it
in a publication aimed at juniors.
We cannot have writers looking over their shoulders in case they might
upset someone. If that happens we might as well all give up and let Fritz do all the notes.
The lad got upset because he lost. That is the sign of a good chess player.
The lad cried himself to sleep when he saw his loss in print?
He needs reminding it's just a game and there will be plenty of his wins
in print in the future.
He also needs to learn shrug off a loss. It happens.
How long was it between the loss and the infamous note appearing?
Brooding over a loss for any more than a day is pointless.
It's not like he was winning and chucked it. (those are the worse losses).
Sounds like the wee lad is putting himself under needless pressure.
(Rohan, believe me, if you won every game of chess you would soon
get bored. No challenge, losses are good, they make you play better next time.)
I played over the game, Black played well White had an off day.
We all play games like that, when all the pieces fall on the wrong squares.
That was one of them. Simply tell yourself you can play better than that
(and the lad can) Shrug it off and go outside and play a game of football.
John Upham asked:
"What term(s) could be more appropriate in your opinion?"
What indeed.
9.Nb3
"This very plausible and not bad move which would have been played
by many adult and more experienced players...etc...etc...etc."
By the time you had finished 9.Nb3 would have become 9.Nb3!!
Finally.
"Children learn much more from their losses than their wins."
As posted by Krishna Shiatis here on the 29th October 2010.
http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2334
How do they learn from their losses if a titled player and experienced
junior coach cannot annotate their lost games?
"Ok I think that Lorin didn't mean it to be offensive..."
Lorin was not offensive period.
That note was backed up with experience of teaching juniors he nailed it
in a publication aimed at juniors.
We cannot have writers looking over their shoulders in case they might
upset someone. If that happens we might as well all give up and let Fritz do all the notes.
The lad got upset because he lost. That is the sign of a good chess player.
The lad cried himself to sleep when he saw his loss in print?
He needs reminding it's just a game and there will be plenty of his wins
in print in the future.
He also needs to learn shrug off a loss. It happens.
How long was it between the loss and the infamous note appearing?
Brooding over a loss for any more than a day is pointless.
It's not like he was winning and chucked it. (those are the worse losses).
Sounds like the wee lad is putting himself under needless pressure.
(Rohan, believe me, if you won every game of chess you would soon
get bored. No challenge, losses are good, they make you play better next time.)
I played over the game, Black played well White had an off day.
We all play games like that, when all the pieces fall on the wrong squares.
That was one of them. Simply tell yourself you can play better than that
(and the lad can) Shrug it off and go outside and play a game of football.
John Upham asked:
"What term(s) could be more appropriate in your opinion?"
What indeed.
9.Nb3
"This very plausible and not bad move which would have been played
by many adult and more experienced players...etc...etc...etc."
By the time you had finished 9.Nb3 would have become 9.Nb3!!
Finally.
"Children learn much more from their losses than their wins."
As posted by Krishna Shiatis here on the 29th October 2010.
http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2334
How do they learn from their losses if a titled player and experienced
junior coach cannot annotate their lost games?
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kishanpattni
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:45 am
Re: Does publishing games give anyone an advantage?
Sabrina Chevannes wrote:My guess is that Krishna is more upset with the timing of the article and how it affected his son's game in the British Championships more than what was actually written.
I think that people don't realise how others can get affected by words or criticism just because they don't react that way themselves. I know that by saying this I am inviting people to say: "Then they should grow up" or "then they shouldn't play the game if they can't handle it", but I don't believe this to be true. Just because Rohan got upset by this, doesn't mean he shouldn't be playing. He is still talented, he just has feelings.
He doesn't like to lose and to have his loss highlighted and so he took it badly. This is normal adult behaviour let alone junior. Ok I think that Lorin didn't mean it to be offensive perhaps, but we shouldn't criticise a 10 year old for having feelings, even if we don't think anything in the article is offensive, as Rohan clearly did.
I could not agree more.
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Geoff Chandler
- Posts: 3492
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
- Location: Under Cover
Re: Does publishing games give anyone an advantage?
Oh Dear....
John Saunders has an entertaining article in the latest Chess October 2011,
reporting on the FIDE World Cup and colouring his notes thus;
"Black has three places to put his King, two of them are safe, but the third has a
trapdoor attachment, with a pool of ravening piranhas underneath..."
That was in the game Xuangzhi - Gupta.
(You will be please to know Black chose the third option...SPLASH!)
But here: Bacrot - Robson Black to play.
John writes: "The young US star makes a schoolboy error." 87...h2??
"Schoolboy error" one year after someone else wrote; "typical junior move".
This linking of poor play to schoolboys and junior players has to cease.
Don't fret worried parents the letter is in the post.
I'll stamp out this cruel nonsense. From now on magazines and
chess sites must now only show error free drawn games. (blogs excluded.)
http://www.redhotpawn.com/blog/blogread ... gpostid=37
I've no idea who the three stooges are.
(BTW. Bacrot - Robson 87...Kg2 holds the draw, if 88.Rg6+ Kf1!)
John Saunders has an entertaining article in the latest Chess October 2011,
reporting on the FIDE World Cup and colouring his notes thus;
"Black has three places to put his King, two of them are safe, but the third has a
trapdoor attachment, with a pool of ravening piranhas underneath..."
That was in the game Xuangzhi - Gupta.
(You will be please to know Black chose the third option...SPLASH!)
But here: Bacrot - Robson Black to play.
John writes: "The young US star makes a schoolboy error." 87...h2??
"Schoolboy error" one year after someone else wrote; "typical junior move".
This linking of poor play to schoolboys and junior players has to cease.
Don't fret worried parents the letter is in the post.
I'll stamp out this cruel nonsense. From now on magazines and
chess sites must now only show error free drawn games. (blogs excluded.)
http://www.redhotpawn.com/blog/blogread ... gpostid=37
I've no idea who the three stooges are.
(BTW. Bacrot - Robson 87...Kg2 holds the draw, if 88.Rg6+ Kf1!)