FIDE Rule 10.2 and "by normal means"

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Ian Thompson
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Re: FIDE Rule 10.2 and "by normal means"

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:52 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:An incident occurred at Milton Keynes on Sunday. Both players were short of time in an intricate rook and pawn ending. Then, three pairs of pawns were swapped off, leaving the following position with black to move and both players having about 15 seconds for all of their remaining moves

Black played ...Ra5 to which white played Rg4

Black now claimed a draw under 10.2, saying that he could simply play his king into the corner (a8) and that because whites king was cut off he couldnt win by normal means. Both players now had 11 seconds remaining.

I wont tell you my decision until the end. Discuss!
I think the correct decision is clear cut - defer your decision and tell the players to play on. As the position has just changed significantly White has not had the opportunity to try to win it and Black has not had the opportunity to demonstrate he knows how to draw it (except that he could have played Kb6 and won the pawn, but didn’t).

I think you should be very wary of taking any account of things players tell you after the clocks have been stopped. When players are very short of time they sometimes completely lose the plot and play like complete beginners. If a player tells you how he would have drawn a position you don’t know whether he realised this before or after the clocks were stopped. For example:

1. I witnessed a congress game some years ago between two players graded well over 200. Both had less than 1 minute left. White was clearly winning, but making pointless moves that were making no progress. An illegal move was played, necessitating the clocks being stopped while that was sorted out. In the mean time White composed himself and won the game without difficulty when the game resumed. I don’t think he would have won the game if the illegal move hadn’t been played.

2. In a recent local league game, a player graded in the 190s reached an ending of King + Queen against King with about 30 seconds left on his clock. He failed to win it before his time ran out.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: FIDE Rule 10.2 and "by normal means"

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:46 pm

What on earth is the problem? When in doubt, delay your decision. There is an alternative to reject th claim and awardwhite an extra 2 minutes. Black is clearly a weak player and thus so White may be weak. You do not want to signal that White has everz right to try to win.
If white makes no attempt to win, after he defends the pawn, then declare the game drawn.
If he tries to win and succeeds fine.
If he tries to win and Black´s time runs out, then you make your decision.
10.2 of the FIDE Laws is perfectly clear. Of course, I woulds say that. If they are not, break down and buy a copy of my book.
Stewart Reuben

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Ben Purton
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Re: FIDE Rule 10.2 and "by normal means"

Post by Ben Purton » Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:13 am

I have two little books which I think might be outdated now. Ones Orange , the other is blue. I got given them when i wanted to study rules for European club cup :S:)
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: FIDE Rule 10.2 and "by normal means"

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:44 am

The latest edition of my book was published in 2005. It is a deeper blue and much larger than the first two editions. It is logical for there to be an edition once every four years as that is the cycle of changing the rules and regulations. Whether there will be a fourth edition in 2009 is quite another story.
The rules about 10.2 have not changed at all since 2001. Thus this discussion does not centre on whether you are reading an old version of the Laws of Chess or not.
Stewart Reuben