Offering a draw to a deaf player

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Sebastian Stone
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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Sebastian Stone » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:06 am

10/20, I can still play chess.

I got one question wrong because I couldn't tell the difference between rank and file.
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That's Mr Stone to you, f**kface.

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Anthony.Ibbitson
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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Anthony.Ibbitson » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:29 pm

Do both players need to record a draw offer?

I've always recorded a draw offer(by entering '=', next to my move), whether it's from myself 'or' my opponent. I've never known whether I've needed to record a draw offer, offered to me, from my opponent.

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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:48 pm

Anthony.Ibbitson wrote:Do both players need to record a draw offer?

I've always recorded a draw offer(by entering '=', next to my move), whether it's from myself 'or' my opponent. I've never known whether I've needed to record a draw offer, offered to me, from my opponent.

Thanks
Tony.
Yes. Both players record the draw off by noting (=) next to the move that was made prior to the draw offer being made. So you're doing the right thing!

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Greg Breed
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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Greg Breed » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:16 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:You could either write down your offer (technically writing your move with an = sign beside it and showing that should suffice) or sign by crossing the index finger of both hands.
The latter is probably best. Make your move, hold out both hands making the cross sign and press your clock. This method is also used when people speak different languages.
I don't mean to sound dense, but can someone supply a picture of the draw sign with the fingers or confirm my understanding below?
You don't mean "fingers crossed" (as in what kids do when they promise to do something but don't want to) when you say 'crossing the index finger of both hands'? More like right index finger over left index finger to form a + sign?
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:21 pm

Anthony.Ibbitson wrote:Do both players need to record a draw offer?
8.1. Both players must record the offer of a draw on the scoresheet. (See Appendix C.13)

C.13. The offer of a draw shall be marked as (=).

So in other words, yes. It isn't optional.

That said, I don't think any arbiter would do anything about it if it wasn't recorded. If both players failed to record it, how would the arbiter ever know? Equally, = is probably just as good as (=) for all intents and purposes.

If you try to claim that your opponent is offering too many draws, then the absence of (=) on your scoresheet is likely to count against you initially. I'd probably ask the opponent if he was offering the draws that the player is claiming he made. If he declined it, then I have no evidence that these draw offers were taking place at all.

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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:31 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote: If you try to claim that your opponent is offering too many draws, then the absence of (=) on your scoresheet is likely to count against you initially.
Well yes, but after the fourth or fifth offer, you get a bit bored with writing (=) on your score-sheet every five moves or so.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:38 pm

Greg Breed wrote:
Alex McFarlane wrote:You could either write down your offer (technically writing your move with an = sign beside it and showing that should suffice) or sign by crossing the index finger of both hands.
The latter is probably best. Make your move, hold out both hands making the cross sign and press your clock. This method is also used when people speak different languages.
I don't mean to sound dense, but can someone supply a picture of the draw sign with the fingers or confirm my understanding below?
You don't mean "fingers crossed" (as in what kids do when they promise to do something but don't want to) when you say 'crossing the index finger of both hands'? More like right index finger over left index finger to form a + sign?
"right index finger over left index finger to form a + sign" - that's the right one. But an 'X' sign, rather than a '+' sign.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:39 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote: If you try to claim that your opponent is offering too many draws, then the absence of (=) on your scoresheet is likely to count against you initially.
Well yes, but after the fourth or fifth offer, you get a bit bored with writing (=) on your score-sheet every five moves or so.
I wonder how you record multiple offers of a draw in the same move? (=)(=)(=)? Or maybe (=)^3?

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Greg Breed
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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Greg Breed » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:02 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I wonder how you record multiple offers of a draw in the same move? (=)(=)(=)? Or maybe (=)^3?
I just write it once then start the dirty looks :evil:
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Greg Breed
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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Greg Breed » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:02 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:"right index finger over left index finger to form a + sign" - that's the right one. But an 'X' sign, rather than a '+' sign.
Thanks Chris :)
I wouldn't want anyone thinking I thought that they were evil and possessed or something!...
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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by John Upham » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:04 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:responding randomly should nett 5/20.
CoM offers 5 possible answers to each question so even a Kirsan / Monkey should score 4/20 with random answering.

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Malcolm Clarke
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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Malcolm Clarke » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:10 pm

I did offer a deaf player a draw in a game in 1986. I wrote the request on a separate score sheet and handed it to him. He replied on the same scoresheet saying I will accept if you let me know what grade. However when I let him know what my grade was he said he could not find evidence of this, declined and he subsequently went on to win the game.

I may have handled this differently now, but I think an important principle must be to convey the message in the form that gives the best chance of the request being understood, which is something that did happen in this instance. One thing you do not want to happen is for the opponent to be confused by the request.

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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Dan O'Dowd » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:22 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:...Equally, = is probably just as good as (=) for all intents and purposes.
I disagree. Bear in mind that many players like to annotate their game as they go when younger; not realising that this is afoul of several laws most notably of potential distraction to opponent. I used to do this all the time as a knowledgeless junior; frequently appending marks to moves of all sorts, standard and created, and = was one I sometimes used to indicate to my later self that I felt then the position was equal. Imagine then that one of these juniors plays in a not so official event, and an arbiter presumes his = to be an offer, which of course the other player doesn't have, and there can be problems. Convoluted perhaps; but precision helps ;)

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Re: Offering a draw to a deaf player

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:27 pm

Dan O'Dowd wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:...Equally, = is probably just as good as (=) for all intents and purposes.
I disagree. Bear in mind that many players like to annotate their game as they go when younger; not realising that this is afoul of several laws most notably of potential distraction to opponent. I used to do this all the time as a knowledgeless junior; frequently appending marks to moves of all sorts, standard and created, and = was one I sometimes used to indicate to my later self that I felt then the position was equal. Imagine then that one of these juniors plays in a not so official event, and an arbiter presumes his = to be an offer, which of course the other player doesn't have, and there can be problems. Convoluted perhaps; but precision helps ;)
If you were a knowledgeless junior, and you played in an event where recording draw offers actually made any difference, you'd find an arbiter who would take you to one side and politely explain that you're not supposed to be annotating your scoresheet during the game. This would then negate the problems with (=) v =.

Furthermore, if you're a junior annotating your game with = even when there isn't a draw offer, you're not likely to complain to the arbiter that your opponent is distracting you with draw offers, because these offers haven't actually happened!

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