Independence Day

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Independence Day

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:53 am

I'm pleased that it's all sorted and I wish you well under your new flag.

John Hickman
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Re: Independence Day

Post by John Hickman » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:08 am

They may take our chess pieces, but they'll never take our freedom!

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Carl Hibbard » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:41 pm

Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:15 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote: Why?
I think there are connections with this lengthy thread from six months ago.
http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... 142#p61650

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:08 pm

Good Move!!

Craig Pritchett
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Craig Pritchett » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:06 pm

Hm! I see that Matthew, at least according to FIDE's transfer data, retains some non-existent thing called English (ENG) "citizenship". Maybe FIDE has already decided that the eventual Scottish Independence referendum can only go one way!? Scary, or maybe just one further example of FIDE's occasional diplomatic banana-skin slips?!

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:22 pm

Craig Pritchett wrote:Scary, or maybe just one further example of FIDE's occasional diplomatic banana-skin slips?!
They won't make an exception for the British Isles, when their system works perfectly well for every other country affiliated to FIDE. Their computer system probably searches for affiliated organisations when referring to countries that one might be a citizen of, so rather than recode everything, this solution is probably more simple.

There have been other transfers involving players registered to England where the same has happened.

I like to be a pedant as much as the next person, but we all know what it means. :wink:

Alistair Campbell
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Alistair Campbell » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:59 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
They won't make an exception for the British Isles, when their system works perfectly well for every other country affiliated to FIDE.
:o
Alex Holowczak wrote:
I like to be a pedant as much as the next person :wink:
Good, now that pedantry is encouraged, I’m going to ask a question (again, sorry, bear with me :( ) that I’ve asked before but I’ve never yet had a good answer to.

As far as I can see the appropriate FIDE rule on registration is C 05 1.3

This suggests that a player may be a member of at most one federation and that they must satisfy either citizenship or residency qualifications (although possibly (the absence of an “or” after 1.3 (b) makes this unclear) there is a FIDE “catch-all”).

There is also provision for payment of three different types of fees in connection with a transfer, namely

1 – a notification fee of €250 (I think Matthew has paid this – well done him)

2 - a compensation fee of up to €10,000 (waived by the ECF in this case – well done them)

3 – a transfer fee of up to €5,000

My question is about the transfer fee. It only appears relevant if one is seeking to accelerate the residency requirements.

I had interpreted Matthew’s transfer as being under the citizenship route (as a UK citizen (I assume) he may be eligible for most of the home nations) not the residency route, yet there is mention of such a transfer fee in Matthew’s link.

Is there another reason why such a fee would become due?

In any event, I think we should be celebrating this good news with a round of cakes or something appropriate... :)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:14 pm

Alistair Campbell wrote: As far as I can see the appropriate FIDE rule on registration is C 05 1.3

This suggests that a player may be a member of at most one federation and that they must satisfy either citizenship or residency qualifications (although possibly (the absence of an “or” after 1.3 (b) makes this unclear) there is a FIDE “catch-all”).
FIDE's current interpretation of the word "membership" is that it means the three character code ENG, SCO etc. on the international rating list and reasonably obviously you can only have one of these at a time. The ECF's interpretation is that "membership" means paying an annual sum of money to the ECF in exchange for nebulous benefits and permissions to play. From September this year, the ECF will expect players in English based leagues (not FIDE rated) to be members of the ECF in the sense of paying an individual fee as well as being members of SCO, WLS, IRL etc.

Chess Scotland established directly from FIDE that it wasn't a FIDE requirement for a player listed under SCO to pay a "membership fee" to Chess Scotland in order to take part in internationally rated events run in Scotland. So unlike in England there are no additional amounts to be paid to the chess federation to take part in the Scottish national league.

(edit) I should add the caveat that Chess Scotland require a payment from organisers for games to be rated. For internationally rated events, this is higher for games played by non-members then members(/edit)

John McKenna
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Re: Independence Day

Post by John McKenna » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:48 pm

Roger points a caveat about the seemingly lower cost of rating in Scotland. And, Alistair thinks we should be celebrating Matthew Turner's declaration of indepenence from that country with "a round of cakes or something appropriate..."
(The Scots could probably afford a round of cakes and ale if they splashed out.)
Has Matthew's declaration of independence from Scotland anything to do with the threat of Scotland's indepenence from the UK, or is it just a coincidence, I wonder?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:12 pm

John McKenna wrote:Roger points a caveat about the seemingly lower cost of rating in Scotland.
Under the ECF's new schemes, whilst Chess Scotland will continue to charge organisers for rating services, the ECF will give them away for nothing on games played by fee payers. In neither case is the payment much to do with the direct cost of providing a rating or grading service, it's that rating service charges can be a useful fund raiser for a chess organisation. This applies to FIDE as well.

The ECF's major net outgoings are the office in Battle and other administrative expenses and the costs of sending properly representative teams to international events when sponsorship or patronage isn't available.

Being somewhat smaller, Chess Scotland relies a lot more on volunteers for doing work equivalent to what the ECF has to pay for.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:34 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:(edit) I should add the caveat that Chess Scotland require a payment from organisers for games to be rated. For internationally rated events, this is higher for games played by non-members then members(/edit)
They also require you to be a Chess Scotland member to see their domestic rating list at all, which I found out only recently when I got an entry from Edinburgh University for BUCA, which quoted CS ratings that I couldn't verify. Luckily, FIDE and the ECF publish theirs for all to see, so I could use those instead.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:54 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote: They also require you to be a Chess Scotland member to see their domestic rating list at all, which I found out only recently when I got an entry from Edinburgh University for BUCA, which quoted CS ratings that I couldn't verify. Luckily, FIDE and the ECF publish theirs for all to see, so I could use those instead.
To be fair, the layout is somewhat confusing. You have to select the box labelled "ranking" to see the ratings. The box labelled search just shows the membership and activity status. For instance there's a whole page of Turners, but only three with current ratings, one of whose rating is zero. The other two are 1419 and 481. I think to get a Scottish rating, Matthew will either have to play in Scotland or send them his English results.

Eoin Campbell, who is a frequent player in English events has a rating of 1844 over 32 games.

This is the page http://www.chessscotland.com/search_players.php#, but you don't seem to be able to specify parameters in a link.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Independence Day

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:14 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:To be fair, the layout is somewhat confusing. You have to select the box labelled "ranking" to see the ratings. The box labelled search just shows the membership and activity status.
Thank you, I've now found the information I was looking for. I agree that it seems like a silly layout; it would be better to show the ranking by default. If I'm looking on the CS grading website, the grade is the main thing I'm interested in. If I can't find a player there, only then would I think to look elsewhere in the search.

Criticism of CS rescinded though. :D

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