Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:46 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
John Foley wrote:Can we have a campaign to remove personal data from the FIDE website. It is unnecessary and creates a gratuitous breach of privacy.
It's not unnecessary - FIDE runs tournaments with age-restricted eligibility; it has that data on display so that it's easy to check that everyone in such an event is eligible.
It's also very useful for me to work out who is eligible for John Robinson Trust funding, World Junior and also for publishing the highest rated juniors in each age group.
Last edited by IM Jack Rudd on Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: fixing QUOTE tags

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:00 pm

matt_ward wrote:Well Joey,

It comes to something when the 2nd biggest English News Papper in this country founded in 1896: a) Spell Jovanka's name wrong, and b) don't know her correct age, it shows that Newspappers can not be trusted clearly.

Even Wikipedia happens to know Jovanka was born in 1980.
Your main mistake, Matt, is to think that the Daily Mail is a "newspaper" in any meaningful sense.

matt_ward
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by matt_ward » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:17 pm

The only paper I give time of day Jonathan is "The Guardian".

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:24 pm

Good choice 8)

John Foley
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by John Foley » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:49 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
John Foley wrote:Can we have a campaign to remove personal data from the FIDE website. It is unnecessary and creates a gratuitous breach of privacy.
It's not unnecessary - FIDE runs tournaments with age-restricted eligibility; it has that data on display so that it's easy to check that everyone in such an event is eligible.
It's also very useful for me to work out who is eligible for John Robinson Trust funding, World Junior and also for publishing the highest rated juniors in each age group.
Yes there are lots of good reasons why the age of a chess player should be known to organisers. However, there is no reason that such data has to be published publicly on an international website on the internet. Convenience in finding the age of juniors is a weak excuse for exposing without consent the age of every rated chess player. It is a disproportionate solution to a specific issue for which there are more confidential solutions available. Disproportionate solutions are of dubious legality.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:20 pm

John Foley wrote:
Yes there are lots of good reasons why the age of a chess player should be known to organisers. However, there is no reason that such data has to be published publicly on an international website on the internet. Convenience in finding the age of juniors is a weak excuse for exposing without consent the age of every rated chess player. It is a disproportionate solution to a specific issue for which there are more confidential solutions available. Disproportionate solutions are of dubious legality.
It's not a big issue for most people I know. What would be the problem for those who do object?

harrylamb
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by harrylamb » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:59 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote: It's (ie date of birth) is not a big issue for most people I know. What would be the problem for those who do object?
Date of birth is a security question for many bank accounts. For this reason I no longer give out my date of birth.

Incidentally I note that FIDE used to give DoB with their grading data. But now they only give B-Year (Birth year)
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:12 pm

harrylamb wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote: It's (ie date of birth) is not a big issue for most people I know. What would be the problem for those who do object?
Date of birth is a security question for many bank accounts. For this reason I no longer give out my date of birth.

Incidentally I note that FIDE used to give DoB with their grading data. But now they only give B-Year (Birth year)
I came up with a unique solution to that problem. Choose a different security question. You're usually given a choice of 3-5.

harrylamb
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by harrylamb » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:39 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
I came up with a unique solution to that problem. Choose a different security question. You're usually given a choice of 3-5.
That's not always possible. I do not want to go into details for security reasons. But one major bank gives you an internet ID number based on your DoB.

Plus if you go into a bank branch you are often asked your DoB for security reasons. This happens to me regularly and at branches of different banks.

If you have been mugged for your credit card as I have when I used it on the Paris underground. They looked over my shoulder when I entered my PIN in a queue. Then later mugged me, you start to take these things seriously. On this occasion I had the emergency number of the credit card with me and reported the loss withing 20 minutes. Even so they made one withdrawal
No taxation without representation

Alan Burke

Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:30 am

Quote from Daily Mail article .... "England’s Javonka Houska, 31, is one player who has helped make the game’s image sexier."

Has that actually been an aim of the player in question or is it just another case of a newspaper publishing a photograph of a female showing a bit of flesh and therefore - in their opinion - she suddenly becomes sexy and has an "enviable figure" ?

Michael Jones
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by Michael Jones » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:36 am

I'd advise anyone who relies on the Daily Mail as a source of news to have a look at this first: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:32 am

harrylamb wrote:That's not always possible. I do not want to go into details for security reasons. But one major bank gives you an internet ID number based on your DoB.
Mine doesn't, that I've noticed. And it gives me another unique number to put in at various stages even if it does.
harrylamb wrote:Plus if you go into a bank branch you are often asked your DoB for security reasons. This happens to me regularly and at branches of different banks.
Mine hasn't. I remember a few years ago it made a point of informing people that it would no longer use DoB for security reasons!
harrylamb wrote:If you have been mugged for your credit card as I have when I used it on the Paris underground. They looked over my shoulder when I entered my PIN in a queue. Then later mugged me, you start to take these things seriously. On this occasion I had the emergency number of the credit card with me and reported the loss withing 20 minutes. Even so they made one withdrawal
This could have happened regardless of your date of birth, though.

harrylamb
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by harrylamb » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:54 am

One of the reasons our game is in decline is the chess playing public’s hatred of publicity. Getting articles like this in a national paper is a milestone. We ought to welcome it and ask for more of it. But no we slag off the newspaper.

“There are weeds growing in my garden that command more credibility than the Daily Mail.”
“The misspelling of her name by the Mail strikes me as a similarly gross error.”
“Your main mistake, Matt, is to think that the Daily Mail is a "newspaper" in any meaningful sense.”

These are undeserved and maybe disgraceful comments in response to the only newspaper that occasionally publishes chess human interest stories. We ought to be elated that Britain’s No 2 selling newspaper gives prominence to a nice happy story about chess. And yes pictures of pretty girls sell newspapers. There is nothing wrong with that. They also in this case sell chess.

Newspapers are full of human interest stories about footballers. As a result the interest in football is phenomenal and the interest in chess is negligible. So let’s encourage more chess stories

There is also an undercurrent in some of the postings that the article is demeaning to women. The Mail encourages women readers and is in fact the only British paper with more than half of its readership female. Perhaps we could take lessons from the Mail to increase the number of females in our game.
No taxation without representation

harrylamb
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by harrylamb » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:13 am

Alex,

Why do you not just accept the reality of the matter that DoB is used for several banks for security purposes and as such it is a sensible precaution not to give it out.
Alex Holowczak wrote:
This could have happened regardless of your date of birth, though.
Maybe maybe not. If I was a 21 year old martial arts expert and not a white haired elderly chess expert they may well have picked on someone else.

But the point I was making is that robbery in all forms can happen to you. And when it does you tighten up your personal security on all fronts.
No taxation without representation

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Jovanka H. in the Daily Mail

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:31 am

harrylamb wrote:Why do you not just accept the reality of the matter that DoB is used for several banks for security purposes and as such it is a sensible precaution not to give it out.
Because I don't believe that is the reality of the matter, having never experienced it with my own bank, who don't use it for precisely the reasons stated. Perhaps I am naive to have expected all banks to do the same?
harrylamb wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:
This could have happened regardless of your date of birth, though.
Maybe maybe not. If I was a 21 year old martial arts expert and not a white haired elderly chess expert they may well have picked on someone else.

But the point I was making is that robbery in all forms can happen to you. And when it does you tighten up your personal security on all fronts.
I agree that you were an easy target because of your advancing years, but the mugger didn't need your date of birth as a piece of information in order to spend your money. He just needed your PIN and your card.

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