Online Cheats

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Steve Collyer
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Online Cheats

Post by Steve Collyer » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:12 am

A little gossip for you...
One of the players in this year's BC just got booted from a CC website for blatant engine use. His rating was over 2400 on that site but his official FIDE rating will now be below 2000 after his poor performance in Liverpool.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:00 am

What is bizarre about that little story by Steve Collyer is what is the point of cheating by using a computer for chess? Unless there was prize money at stake for a tournament there is nothing to be gained by having a high internet rating.

Poker is different. At least one is cheating for a purpose. The poker sites have draconian rules about this. If you are a machine, then all the money you have deposited on the site is sequestered. They find out by burrowing into your computer to find suspicious activity.
One person was playing on 17 tables at once. He sent the poker site a video of his doing so because they said they were shutting him down. That is amazing speed. He would need to take 17 actions every 30 seconds.

Stewart Reuben

Steve Collyer
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by Steve Collyer » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:19 am

I suppose a reasonably strong club player may cheat because of a few reasons.

They may just start by checking if that piece sac really does work & get addicted that way.
They be of the mindset "well clearly everyone else does it..."
Perhaps they want to gain some sort of respect by inflating their rating a few hundred points.
Maybe they have low self-esteem or just like to mock the system & see how long they can get away with it for...

Being an ECF 83 after my first OTB season and having a CC rating on that site averaging between 1550-1650 I really don't have to worry about online cheats other than when I get blasted off the board in -25 moves in the 2nd round of a tourni which is rather frustrating.

Unfortunately I cannot play as much OTB as I'd like and my blitz sucks, so CC seems the only option.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:58 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:Poker is different. At least one is cheating for a purpose.
I suspect low self-esteem is a much more common motivation for cheating than money is -- in life in general I mean not chess specifically.

I agree with your general thrust though ... it does seem a very bizarre way to behave.

John Moore
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by John Moore » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:43 pm

Low self esteem can of course follow from a lack of money - loss of job etc.

Cheating is also something that, in general life, some people do as a matter of course - drive in your car parking space, jump the queue at the bar (oh Stewart!!), offer you two black pawns - but in general chess players don't cheat.

However I have played a lot on the internet Chess Club - and I suspect at around 1800-2000 level, there's a lot of laptops.

TomChivers
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by TomChivers » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:20 pm

John Moore wrote: . . . but in general chess players don't cheat.

However I have played a lot on the internet Chess Club - and I suspect at around 1800-2000 level, there's a lot of laptops.
I'm completely confused!!

Do you mean to say people who play on laptops cheat, but not those who play on desktops?!

Or are you pointing out that on a laptop using ICC is harder than when using a desktop - because of having to use a mouse-pad rather than a mouse proper - so therefore it's harder to get over 2000?! (If so, I agree but the connection with the rest of what you say is lost on me.)

Or are you saying, players at 1800-2000 level are cheating, perhaps implying anyone over 2000 is strong enough to beat a chess computer, anyone under 1800 too weak to?!

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:20 pm

Computer use in CC.... I'm not sure I follow the arguments. "Works of reference" are allowed in CC, hence books and Chessbase are OK, but asking another player's advice is not allowed. SOME CC organisations specifically prohibit "thinking" software like Fritz etc. Others recognise they cannot stop it so don't have rules about it. You will not become World CC champion if you rely on software, but may well succeed at lower levels. (You might do if you're friends with a strong OTB grandmaster.)

It is hardly surprising that some people have CC ratings 400 points higher than OTB ratings, maybe they get tired or run out of time OTB, which can be avoided in CC. In contrast, my CC rating is lower than the OTB one, as the "interesting" ideas which sometimes work OTB fall to pieces when the opponent has time to look at them. :(

Kevin
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey

John Upham
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by John Upham » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:17 pm

The PlayChess.Com server continually reports aliases that have been shown to be using an engine.

They are lambasted in public and their rating is reset to the start amount.

There are now sites appearing that allow one to play chess for money. I don't know anyone who has tried...

Anyone have experience of any these money paying sites?

John
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Greg Breed
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by Greg Breed » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:15 pm

John Upham wrote:There are now sites appearing that allow one to play chess for money. I don't know anyone who has tried...

Anyone have experience of any these money paying sites?

John
I have come across one or two of them and for various reasons declined to even try. Some of them are obviously cheating, but more likely is that you'll just get beaten by better players and never win! That's why proper chess tournaments have graded sections for those of us who have already peaked and will never get above amateur level...
Hatch End A Captain (Hillingdon League)
Harrow Captain (Middlesex League)

John Moore
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by John Moore » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:54 pm

Tom

I have only just caught up with this thread - what I meant was that people play on a desktop, but replicate the game on a laptop alongside with an engine running.

ICC, for example, reckon that their Spyware (which you load when you join the site) can catch you if you run an engine on your desktop whilst playing. Even then, I guess there have to be quite a lot of complaints to ICC from opponents.

TomChivers
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by TomChivers » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:23 pm

Oh. Ok. You'd have to be pretty bad at cheating though to cheat and be under 2000. I would think 2500 would be the lower bar here, something like that.

John Moore
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by John Moore » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:33 pm

Well I think people (even cheats) settle for what is not totally unrealistic. If you are for example 130 ECF OTB then 2000 looks pretty good and you might get away with it for a bit. If you decided to be 2500+, that would be pretty silly and you'd soon be caught.

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Re: Online Cheats

Post by Administrator » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:09 pm

I have split this topic away from the British since it's wandering away from the point of that one a little
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

TomChivers
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Re: British Championship 2008

Post by TomChivers » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:02 pm

Good decision to split the thread Carl.
John Moore wrote:Well I think people (even cheats) settle for what is not totally unrealistic. If you are for example 130 ECF OTB then 2000 looks pretty good and you might get away with it for a bit. If you decided to be 2500+, that would be pretty silly and you'd soon be caught.
Sorry, but I think any semi-decent computer playing on ICC even via a manua cheat would be at least 2500. They just don't make computers as bad as 2000 ICC any more.

John Moore
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Re: Online Cheats

Post by John Moore » Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:39 am

Yes Tom, but the sensible cheat (!) keeps his grade within limits by not always using the computer when playing or not always picking the computer's first choice. I agree that someone who blindly follows the computer would probably finish up 2500+ - at least until the complaints from opponents mounted.

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