FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Paul Dupré
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Cove, Hampshire

FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:06 pm

What's going on, a number of players have been removed from the rating list.

For instance Martin C Page:
January 2012 entry
418382 Page, Martin C ENG 1865 0 1941
March 2012 entry
418382 Page, Martin C ENG 1941

When I investigated further I found his last game played in the Surrey Chess Congress 2011, is no longer listed. So, he now has only 8 qualifying games instead of the required 9.

Have I missed something - why have results from last year's Surrey Congress disappeared from the FIDE webpage. 6 players and all their results have just been wiped out:
421111 Porter, Sam J 1808 ENG
2503891 McCabe, Shane IRL
422894 Kalaiyalahan, Akshaya ENG
423211 Winter, Malcolm J ENG
422134 Zhou, Yang-Jian ENG
420751 Pattni, Kishan 1654 ENG

Paul Dupré
Surrey Congress Rating Officer
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

John Upham
Posts: 4342
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by John Upham » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:23 pm

Is it possible that these players are not current members of a national federation?
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Paul Dupré
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Cove, Hampshire

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:27 pm

John Upham wrote:Is it possible that these players are not current members of a national federation?
Which bit did you not understand?

If your not a member, you rating gets unpublished. You don't get all your games wiped from the record books.
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

John Upham
Posts: 4342
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by John Upham » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:33 pm

Paul Dupré wrote:
John Upham wrote:Is it possible that these players are not current members of a national federation?
Which bit did you not understand?
What are the options and I'll choose from the menu?
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Paul Dupré
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Cove, Hampshire

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:33 pm

John Upham wrote:Is it possible that these players are not current members of a national federation?
OK, I've looked back over my records for last Easter, and my reply from Richard Haddrell confirms all the 5 English players were members at the time of the 2011 Surrey Congress grading submission.
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 18104
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:58 pm

I can almost see what's happened. You may want to take a very close look at the rating report for the 2010 tournament. Martin Page, for example, is treated as being rated, although from looking at his history on the ECF site, his only previous internationally rated games appear to be the 4 at the 2009 Surrey. So he would have had a part rating, but that's supposed to go through as if he is unrated.

The report is at
http://ratings.fide.com/tournament_repo ... nt16=49921.

FIDE have now removed the rating changes for unrated players, but it hasn't brought them back in as performances contributing to a rating.

Normally I'd suggest asking the IRO. Given that there isn't one, you may have to go directly to the FIDE ratings office on behalf of the Surrey Congress.

The knock on effect of removing ratings that weren't really there, is that other players take longer to get their first rating, and games between unrated players disappear from view.

Paul Dupré
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Cove, Hampshire

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March. Why???

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:07 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:FIDE have now removed the rating changes for unrated players, but it hasn't brought them back in as performances contributing to a rating.
NO NO NO. You have missed the point as well - Sam Porter is rated and has been for some time. His games in the Surrey Congress 2011 have been wiped from this page http://ratings.fide.com/tournament_repo ... nt16=56099. They were here a couple of weeks ago and now they are NOT.

Why????

Look at this => Round 6 - Board 27
Last edited by Paul Dupré on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

Sean Hewitt
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Contact:

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:10 pm

Paul Dupré wrote:What's going on, a number of players have been removed from the rating list.

For instance Martin C Page:
January 2012 entry
418382 Page, Martin C ENG 1865 0 1941
March 2012 entry
418382 Page, Martin C ENG 1941

When I investigated further I found his last game played in the Surrey Chess Congress 2011, is no longer listed. So, he now has only 8 qualifying games instead of the required 9.

Have I missed something - why have results from last year's Surrey Congress disappeared from the FIDE webpage. 6 players and all their results have just been wiped out:
421111 Porter, Sam J 1808 ENG
2503891 McCabe, Shane IRL
422894 Kalaiyalahan, Akshaya ENG
423211 Winter, Malcolm J ENG
422134 Zhou, Yang-Jian ENG
420751 Pattni, Kishan 1654 ENG

Paul Dupré
Surrey Congress Rating Officer
Paul,

I don't think that the results have disappeared. Looking here, all the results are listed. http://ratings.fide.com/view_source.phtml?code=56099#10

The issue is that games against unrated players do not show here http://ratings.fide.com/tournament_repo ... nt16=56099. Neither do results played by unrated players if they do not achieve a part rating in the event.

Sean Hewitt
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Contact:

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March. Why???

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:11 pm

Paul Dupré wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:FIDE have now removed the rating changes for unrated players, but it hasn't brought them back in as performances contributing to a rating.
NO NO NO. You have missed the point as well - Sam Porter is rated and has been for some time. His games in the Surrey Congress 2011 have been wiped from this page http://ratings.fide.com/tournament_repo ... nt16=56099. They were here a couple of weeks ago and now they are NOT.

Why????

Round 6 - Board 27
According to FIDE, Sam Porter got his first rating in September 2011, sometime after last years Surrey Congress. http://ratings.fide.com/id.phtml?event=421111

Yet this http://ratings.fide.com/view_source.phtml?code=56099#21 shows him as rated at last years Surrey event. Very perculiar. Perhaps you should ask the ECF to investigate?

Paul Dupré
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Cove, Hampshire

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:15 pm

Extract from rating list March 2011


421111 Porter, Sam J ENG 1808 0 1992


He was rated 1808 at the last congress @@@!"%^&**(
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

Sean Hewitt
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Contact:

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:18 pm

My copy of the rating list confirms that he was rated in January 2011, 1808. It seems to me that some event in 2010 has changed or been deleted.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 18104
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March. Why???

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:28 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote: According to FIDE, Sam Porter got his first rating in September 2011, sometime after last years Surrey Congress. http://ratings.fide.com/id.phtml?event=421111
From http://ratings.fide.com/view_source.phtml?code=56099, he only played 2 rated players in the 2011 Sutton Major. But that report also shows him as having a rating for the games against his two rated opponents. So there's some retrospective recalculation going on, whether initiated by FIDE or the ECF. You still need 3 games for a tournament to qualify for a part rating, do you not?

In 2011, he would only have had a part rating, based on the 2010 Surrey Major and a CCF event.

So the rating reports for the Surrey Major have been submitted with part rated players showing as fully rated. This has been mostly, but not wholly, reversed.

Paul Dupré
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Cove, Hampshire

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:37 pm

Extract from November 2010 rating list

421111 Porter, Sam J ENG 1808 9 1992

Where did these 9 games come from then ?

Does anybody know.....
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

Paul Dupré
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Cove, Hampshire

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by Paul Dupré » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:50 pm

OK, 3 games from the Surrey Congress 2010:
Lost Richard BE BRYANT 1945
Won Jasdeep GAHIR 1765
Drew James F McKENNA 1925.

What about the other six games - anyone ???
Any postings on here represent the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God,
...and by the way the world is flat.

GLOBE LIE UK CONVENTION 2019 (13-15 Sept. 2019 Kidderminster)
Hope to see you there...

Paul Cooksey

Re: FIDE Rated In January NOT in March.

Post by Paul Cooksey » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:53 pm

I'm worried that if the ECF don't appoint an IRO soon then Paul may spontaneously combust

Post Reply