e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

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Alex Holowczak
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Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:15 pm

William Metcalfe wrote:Were any Norms gained at the event Sean
John McKenna wrote:IM norms for D. Eggleston & M. Brown?
Sean Hewitt (many posts ago) wrote:The draw for Round 9 of the London Diamond Jubilee Congress his been published.

Congratulations to David Eggleston and Martin Brown who both score IM norms - provided they play their games this afternoon!

Richard Bates
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Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Richard Bates » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:15 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
William Metcalfe wrote:Were any Norms gained at the event Sean
John McKenna wrote:IM norms for D. Eggleston & M. Brown?
Sean Hewitt (many posts ago) wrote:The draw for Round 9 of the London Diamond Jubilee Congress his been published.

Congratulations to David Eggleston and Martin Brown who both score IM norms - provided they play their games this afternoon!
I thought David already had all the necessary norms, and has just been trying to get his rating close to 2400? This result will wipe out the disastrous 4NCL.

Richard Bates
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Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Richard Bates » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:18 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:Something I have often meant to ask regarding swiss events is whether these days anyone thinks it appropriate not to pair players from the same Club together if avoidable?

I am prompted to ask this by seeing that Neil Berry and Sam Collins are paired together on board seven (they have been Barbican team mates for 11 years). Now perhaps they are each doing sufficiently well for it not to be appropriate to depart from ordinary pairing rules, or maybe there is no good alternative - I am not really too bothered by this particular example, but I would like to know whather there is any aversion in principle to pairing players from the same club, and whether therefore players should be more careful which club they specify when entering tournaments?
I always thought the "justification" for not pairing clubmates, was that historically clubmates would have played each other many times in inter-club tournaments. I'm not sure that "4NCL team-mates" is quite the same thing - since if anything it will have meant that they are less likely to meet regularly over the chessboard? Barbican 4NCL is not a club, it is a (collection of) team(s).

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:18 pm

Well, shall we really argue about the definition of a "Club"? It is of course not the same as your ordinary "geographic" club where they might meet each week and play friendlies and go to the same tournaments, I agree. And maybe that s enough to make the difference. Still they are unusually familiar with each other's play, I should think, even if they don't actually play each other very often.

Simon Ansell
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Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Simon Ansell » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:59 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:Well, shall we really argue about the definition of a "Club"? It is of course not the same as your ordinary "geographic" club where they might meet each week and play friendlies and go to the same tournaments, I agree. And maybe that s enough to make the difference. Still they are unusually familiar with each other's play, I should think, even if they don't actually play each other very often.
Not that I particularly want to get into an argument, but I'd say I'm much less likely to play Richard (Bates) than I used to be, because we both happen to play for the same 4NCL and London League 'clubs' and are of similar ratings. I wouldn't be particularly happy if I travelled abroad and was drawn to play Maria in the first round of an Open tournament though, which is much more likely to happen.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:41 am

That is a better example (I did say that I was not too bothered by the particular example of Berry v Collins).

Alex Holowczak
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Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:13 am

Richard Bates wrote:I thought David already had all the necessary norms, and has just been trying to get his rating close to 2400?
That's my understanding too. That doesn't contradict the fact that he got an IM norm at Gatwick. :wink:

He was pretty close to getting a GM norm; I think he needed 2/2 on the final day and got 1.5.

Paul Cooksey

Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:34 pm

Same club pairings difficult to make rules for I think. How do you tell the difference between, for example, a real member of Cheddleton and somone who plays regularly in weekend opens and worked out not being paired with GMs Hebden and Arkell was a good investment?

I'm comfortable with arbiters fiddling around with the draw a little in round 1, where there is some common sense reason for it. Pairing Maria with another IM instead of Simon, not pairing siblings, etc. But more than that, and later in tournaments, I suspect it is more trouble than it is worth.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:30 am

B.01.1.11 of the FIDE Title Regulations:
The tournament system must be a fair one...those where players have different conditions in terms of pairings are not valid.

I used to manipulate pairings to help people get title norms and avoid certain pairings. FIDE knew this and accepted that the system was fair. It took me 25 years to change the regulations so that this is no longer necessary. Family pairings are different again. that players from Arabic countries are not paired with Israelis is an unwritten law. Ignoring it meant Yemen defaulted against Israel in round 1, as I knew they would. Israel got a medal possibly because of that.

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:53 am

Hi Sean,

Just a quick query - the links to download the games do not appear to be working - is it just me?

Thanks, Krishna

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: e2e4 London Diamond Jubilee Congress

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:58 am

Hi Sean,

Thank you - all fine now!

Krishna

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