Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

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JustinHorton
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Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:45 am

Which is your preference and why?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Richard James » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:09 am

Bridgeplayer? Poker-player? Tennisplayer? Hockey-player?

I think I'll stick with chess player (or chesser if you want a single word) thank you very much.

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Tristan Clayton
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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Tristan Clayton » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:31 am

JustinHorton wrote:Which is your preference and why?
Chessplayer. Becauseremovingspacesandhyphensfromhardtofollowsentencesmakesthemeasiertoread.

:D
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Mike Gunn
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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Mike Gunn » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:43 am

The latest draft proposal for the new FIDE Laws contains a new word: chessclock (no space) and a new action "pressing the chessclock" which has a particular meaning (i.e. stopping your clock and starting your opponent's). Although there is a good reason for this (to avoid ambiguity that could otherwise arise in referring to just "clock"), I must say I'm not keen on chessclock.

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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:53 am

Mike Gunn wrote:The latest draft proposal for the new FIDE Laws contains a new word: chessclock (no space) and a new action "pressing the chessclock" which has a particular meaning (i.e. stopping your clock and starting your opponent's). Although there is a good reason for this (to avoid ambiguity that could otherwise arise in referring to just "clock"), I must say I'm not keen on chessclock.
The big problem with this is that FIDE are struggling to find different words that mean certain things.

Chessclocks means the lump of plastic/wood holding the electronics/mechanics together.
Clocks means the physical time display. (They should say "time display" in my opinion.)

That's fine, but when they go on to use these words in the subsequent Laws, they don't use them accurately.

In my opinion, they also need another word meaning the thing you press in order to stop your clock, and start your opponent's clock. The problem is electronic v mechanical. With an electronic clock, you'd use the word "lever", but with a mechanical clock, you'd use the word "button". But which do you use when you mean both?

For example:

6.7c. The players must handle the chess clock properly. It is forbidden to punch it forcibly, to pick it up or to knock it over. Improper clock handling shall be penalised in accordance with Article 13.4.

Surely this should read, "Improper chess clock handling"? Forbidden to forcibly punch what, the chess clock? Surely this should mean the button/lever?

6.10a. Every indication given by the clocks is considered to be conclusive in the absence of any evident defect. A chess clock with an evident defect shall be replaced. The arbiter shall replace the clock and use his best judgment when determining the times to be shown on the replacement chess clocks.

The last sentence should read, when you tie it in to their definition, "The arbiter shall replace the chess clock and use his best judgement when determining the times to be shown on the replacement clocks."

In the example you quote, "Pressing the chessclock" is not good English at all if that's how they're defining "chessclock". This is why I think they need a word that means button/lever.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:08 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:In my opinion, they also need another word meaning the thing you press in order to stop your clock, and start your opponent's clock. The problem is electronic v mechanical. With an electronic clock, you'd use the word "lever", but with a mechanical clock, you'd use the word "button". But which do you use when you mean both?
Arguably, what you call a lever is still a button:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push-button

Push-button would be a good term to use. If you want to be pedantic, the 'lever' is probably a switch. Though I can see why it is called a lever, as pressing one end down raises the opposite end.

Probably a toggle switch with a rocking mechanism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch#Toggle_switch

And of course, the 'button' on a chess clock is just the visible part of a more complicated mechanism. Not having taken a chess clock apart, I'm not sure what exactly happens when you press the 'button', in order to get the end result. It both raises the other 'button' and stops and starts the clocks.

Both the 'button' and the 'lever' are probably toggle switches. One mechanical, the other both mechanical and electrical. Sorry that's not one word! :D

Or 'rocker switch':

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/rocker-switch
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:12 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote: The big problem with this is that FIDE are struggling to find different words that mean certain things.
Stewart's discussions with the Americans on rule harmonisation threw up the point that the whole notion of clocks and flags is becoming redundant. You need to address issues involving digital timing devices and when, whether or how, they denote that a player has overstepped a time limit, whether the device continues to run after expiry and whether the device should "remember" whose time expired first. Also you need to address whether the clock is to be programmed with all the details of the competition limits. As regards the question of how you start or stop the digital device, some use finger sensitive pads, so there is no mechanical lever.

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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:18 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Both the 'button' and the 'lever' are probably toggle switches. One mechanical, the other both mechanical and electrical. Sorry that's not one word! :D
DGT's only use the rocker bar for the reason that it enables you to see from a distance whose move it is. Without such a mechanism, digital clocks would struggle for acceptance. Prototypes were around in the early eighties. Mike Basman had one and was allowed to use it in Congresses. I was sitting at the next board, but on the non display side. The position was interesting, but whose move was it? Both players appeared deep in thought. I don't think the clock had anything other that the display to indicate the move.

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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by John Upham » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:32 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:I must say I'm not keen on chessclock.
Whenever I introduce newcomers (young or old) to time controls I only refer to a chess timer and never a clock.

Talking of clocks reinforces the notion of analogue devices. The word timers conveys a more digital feel.
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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Neil Graham » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:44 pm

Some considerable time ago, I remember my local club sending their chess clocks to a local watch repairer for a service for which he had quoted £4 per clock. Unfortunately his idea of a clock wasn't the same as ours; consequently we were charged for each individual clock thus doubling our expected bill from £32 to £64. :(

Kevin O'Connell
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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Kevin O'Connell » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:06 pm

Writers and lawyers agree on "chess player" for obvious reasons... :D

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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:31 pm

In chess literature one seldom comes across hyphen for these terms.
I use
scoresheet
chessboard
chessplayer (I think)
So I saw no harm in Geurt's idea of chessclock.
There are bigger problems
move is utterly ambiguous. Some use half-move but that is not in common use.
piece sometimes means one of the 6 pieces or sometimes one of the 6 except pawns. the term 'man' has fallen into disuse.

If you see what you think is an error in the latest draft do please point it out. Don't just say there is one without being specific. If you can't be bothered to do so, don't moan when the Laws become official with errors in them. After Geurt, the British have a bigger influence on this process than the entire rest of the world.

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:07 pm

There is no hyphen in patzer.

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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:11 pm

What: "Chesser"
Why: So I don't have to think about the question.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Chessplayer, chess-player or chess player?

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:43 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:In my opinion, they also need another word meaning the thing you press in order to stop your clock, and start your opponent's clock. The problem is electronic v mechanical. With an electronic clock, you'd use the word "lever", but with a mechanical clock, you'd use the word "button". But which do you use when you mean both?
Many American digital chess clocks do have buttons, not rocker switches, to operate them. Chronos clocks, which appear to be the most commonly used in America, have a choice of either buttons to press, or electrical pads to touch, to operate them. In fact, looking here, the only make that uses rocker switches is DGT.
Alex Holowczak wrote:For example:

6.7c. The players must handle the chess clock properly. It is forbidden to punch it forcibly, to pick it up or to knock it over. Improper clock handling shall be penalised in accordance with Article 13.4.

Surely this should read, "Improper chess clock handling"? Forbidden to forcibly punch what, the chess clock? Surely this should mean the button/lever?
This is probably an Americanism, as they refer to punching the clock's button or lever, not pressing it. Perhaps what it should say is that "It is forbidden to use excessive force when operating the chess clock".
Alex Holowczak wrote:In the example you quote, "Pressing the chessclock" is not good English at all if that's how they're defining "chessclock". This is why I think they need a word that means button/lever.
Perhaps the way to deal with this is to remove all references to buttons and levers, and just refer to players "stopping their timer" and "starting their opponent's timer" without being specific on how this is done as it will vary from device to device. Also, take the opportunity to remove all references to chess clocks and call them game timers, or something similar.

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