Page 1 of 4
Why no fixtures?
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:02 pm
by James Toon
Does anyone know what's happened to the London League fixtures for next season? There's nothing on the League website and I haven't had a reply to an email I sent Brian Smith. Last year the fixtures were out by the start of August. There's no obvious reason for the delay since the League AGM took place over a month ago.
This is not just me being impatient. It's only six weeks to the start of next season. Time enough to get organised for the London League, if the fixtures come out now. But there are several other leagues in the London area that can't make their own fixtures until they know what commitments their players have in the London League. For example the Middlesex League, the Surrey League, and the one that I run, the Central London League.
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:20 pm
by John Upham
James,
As soon as (well, maybe after a few minutes delay) I am passed the fixtures list I will import into the LCL database.
Possibly the relevant persons are on holiday?
The Secretaries contact number is listed at
http://www.londonchess.org.uk/
I'd prefer to get all the fixtures on-line as soon as possible but I do not create them.
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:04 pm
by John Philpott
I had raised this very issue with the London League President yesterday (he happens to be a club mate of mine). He did not know the answer but was doing his best to find out.
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:29 pm
by James Toon
I've just heard from Brian Smith. Apparently there was a "minor hiccup" (he didn't say what it was) and he now hopes to receive the fixtures in the week beginning 27 August.
I really don't think this is acceptable and I've replied to Brian as follows:
Thanks for the information. I don't know how you organise the fixture preparation, but the week of 27 August is very late indeed given that it's only a month before the season is due to start, and there are several other leagues that can't prepare their own fixtures until they see the London League fixtures and know which dates to avoid.
The League AGM took place on 11 July, which is over six weeks before the date when you hope to receive the fixtures. I can't understand why it should take so long.
I suppose there's nothing to be done about it now, but I hope the League will make arrangements next summer to ensure that the fixtures are produced significantly earlier than this.
I'd be interested to hear from others in the London League hierarchy whether they agree that the fixtures should be produced sooner and how this could be managed in future.
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:40 pm
by John Philpott
James Toon wrote
Apparently there was a "minor hiccup" (he didn't say what it was)
I now understand that this was a one-off situation, relating to the Fixtures Secretary moving home from Spain back to the UK.
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:36 am
by mattpiper
James Toon wrote:
I've just heard from Brian Smith. Apparently there was a "minor hiccup" (he didn't say what it was) and he now hopes to receive the fixtures in the week beginning 27 August.
I really don't think this is acceptable and I've replied to Brian as follows:
Quote:
Thanks for the information. I don't know how you organise the fixture preparation, but the week of 27 August is very late indeed given that it's only a month before the season is due to start, and there are several other leagues that can't prepare their own fixtures until they see the London League fixtures and know which dates to avoid.
The League AGM took place on 11 July, which is over six weeks before the date when you hope to receive the fixtures. I can't understand why it should take so long.
I suppose there's nothing to be done about it now, but I hope the League will make arrangements next summer to ensure that the fixtures are produced significantly earlier than this.
I'd be interested to hear from others in the London League hierarchy whether they agree that the fixtures should be produced sooner and how this could be managed in future.
As captain of one of the teams in the London League I really think we should just be thankful of all the work that Brian and others do. With various different venues and with many clubs having several teams, organising the fixtures cannot be an easy task and we should be grateful that someone is prepared to give up their time to do it. If it's a bit late this year I'm sure everyone will manage....
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:18 am
by Gavin Strachan
going by my results last year I hoped they were not going to come out at all....
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:30 am
by Alex Holowczak
Just a quick observation: The London League's fixtures are appointed centrally by an officer? In Birmingham, there's a fixtures meeting, and people from all clubs go to it. You then spend ~ 2 hours scheduling all of the games, picking mutually convenient dates and/or venues. This means you can hold it pretty soon after you know who is in which division, and our fixtures are known by the middle of June usually (for a September start). This also means we have gaps for the Wolverhampton/Leamington/Dudley/whatever leages that a club might also enter. Would this help in London?
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:35 am
by Sean Hewitt
Alex Holowczak wrote:Just a quick observation: The London League's fixtures are appointed centrally by an officer? In Birmingham, there's a fixtures meeting, and people from all clubs go to it. You then spend ~ 2 hours scheduling all of the games, picking mutually convenient dates and/or venues. This means you can hold it pretty soon after you know who is in which division, and our fixtures are known by the middle of June usually (for a September start). This also means we have gaps for the Wolverhampton/Leamington/Dudley/whatever leages that a club might also enter. Would this help in London?
Is that the meeting that's so good you do your absolute best to avoid going?
In Leicester, we have a fixtures officer who does it.
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:53 am
by Angus French
Alex Holowczak wrote:Just a quick observation: The London League's fixtures are appointed centrally by an officer? In Birmingham, there's a fixtures meeting, and people from all clubs go to it. You then spend ~ 2 hours scheduling all of the games, picking mutually convenient dates and/or venues. This means you can hold it pretty soon after you know who is in which division, and our fixtures are known by the middle of June usually (for a September start). This also means we have gaps for the Wolverhampton/Leamington/Dudley/whatever leages that a club might also enter. Would this help in London?
In the London League, many teams play at a single (central) venue which has limited capacity and is only available three nights a week. Setting the fixtures is a logistics exercise which is probably easiest done by a single person (or using computer software).
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:58 am
by David Sedgwick
Alex Holowczak wrote:Just a quick observation: The London League's fixtures are appointed centrally by an officer? In Birmingham, there's a fixtures meeting, and people from all clubs go to it. You then spend ~ 2 hours scheduling all of the games, picking mutually convenient dates and/or venues. This means you can hold it pretty soon after you know who is in which division, and our fixtures are known by the middle of June usually (for a September start). This also means we have gaps for the Wolverhampton/Leamington/Dudley/whatever leages that a club might also enter. Would this help in London?
In a word, no.
The issue of whether to have fixtures centrally allocated or to have a fixtures meeting is one that many leagues have debated on and off for at least fifty years - and have reached different conclusions at different times.
However, in the London League the vast majority of matches are not played at clubs' own venues, but at a common venue with limited space. With that set up, it seems to me self-evident that central allocation of fixtures is likely to work far better.
(Edit. I seem to have come in second several times recently. This time Angus was the winner.)
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:17 am
by James Toon
mattpiper wrote:As captain of one of the teams in the London League I really think we should just be thankful of all the work that Brian and others do. With various different venues and with many clubs having several teams, organising the fixtures cannot be an easy task and we should be grateful that someone is prepared to give up their time to do it. If it's a bit late this year I'm sure everyone will manage....
Obvious rebuke noted. I do a little chess admin myself – I captain three teams, I'm the administrator (including fixtures officer) for two leagues, I'm the grader for one league, I'm the secretary for one club, and I run three chess websites. I know how hard it is to get people to do things and I too am grateful to those, including Brian Smith, who give up their time.
That doesn't mean condoning significant delays in the production of fixtures, especially where this inconveniences other leagues. I'm suggesting that this exercise might be done more efficiently next year. And I don't mind contributing to that if necessary – I wouldn't have complained if I wasn't prepared to be part of the solution.
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:25 am
by Alex Holowczak
I was aware of the London setup with regard to central venues for everything, but thought I'd make the point in case it hadn't come up before.
David Sedgwick wrote:(Edit. I seem to have come in second several times recently. This time Angus was the winner.)
Could be worse. I spent about 15 minutes digging out my copy of the BICC Agreement from a 100 e-mail thread we were involved in (it took a while finding which particular thread it was), moving it into Google Documents, and then getting ready to paste the link in here. By which time, you'd already attached it to a forum post in reply.
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:03 am
by Adam Raoof
The idea of creating a fixtures list centrally is a good one, if it saves time.
Re: Why no fixtures?
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:18 pm
by John Philpott
The latest I hear is that the London League fixtures are expected by the end of this month.