Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:25 pm

Ihor Lewyk wrote: I don't understand your estimated figures however, and I don't see what relevance a seperate grading system has with a loss to the ECF.
I was trying to estimate the number of games played in the local Yorkshire leagues which aren't graded. So if a league has 30 teams, each with 6 boards and each team plays 10 matches, then the number of games played is per team is 60 so that's 1800 over the league. If you divide by two because of two players, that's 900 games per league. If there are 6 leagues of this size, that's 5400 games in total. Another way of looking at it, is to say there are 1080 players.

As far as grading is concerned, if the Yorkshire system didn't exist, local evening leagues in Yorkshire would have the same choices as elsewhere in the country namely
(a) to remain or become part of national grading accepting whatever conditions, financial and otherwise that are imposed by the ECF
or
(b) opt out of grading entirely
or
(c) set up their own local systems.

Adult leagues have usually opted for (a), whilst some junior organisations have opted for (b) or (c).

Brendan O'Gorman
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Brendan O'Gorman » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:48 pm

Mike Gunn wrote: -- Text omitted --

The BCF started campaigning for this at least 15 years ago and it has remained an aim. Although we have received some support from British MPs and even the odd minister the real difficulty is opposition from other sports. When I spoke to somebody I knew on the Sports Council about 10 years ago I asked her why there was opposition to us she said "we have no problem with chess, but it is regarded as the thin end of the wedge: if we let in chess then how can we say no to darts?". So you could say it's the British class system that is stopping recognition and that shows no sign of disappearing.
Mike,
I know nothing about this matter personally but, as an ex-civil service policy advisor (in other areas), I'd imagine the concern about accepting chess as a sport would be opening the flood gates to games of all sorts. If a game such as chess can be funded, why not dominoes or go or shogi or cribbage and so on?

If the ECF really wanted to have a go at this, they should draft a Bill to change the law, offer it to a sympathetic MP and hope he or she was successful in the annual ballot for Private Members' Bills. Even then, the government would probably arrange a filibuster to prevent the Bill's passage through Parliament but it might at least explode the myth that they supported chess. (For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not making a party political point.)

Brendan O'Gorman
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Brendan O'Gorman » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:54 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote: -- Text Omitted --

Sean suggested that it is a Council of Europe definition which British bodies follow and much of the rest of Europe ignores, that one a necessary condition for a sport is that it contains a degree of physical recreation. You don't have to have any form of competition. When it was raised in Parliament around twelve years ago, an old Act of Parliament dating back to the days of Neville Chamberlain was also mentioned as a sticking point.
Roger,
Interesting, but my understanding is that Parliament is free to frame new legislation as it chooses, amending or revoking previous laws as it sees fit, unless specifically prevented by supra-national treaties such as those constituting membership of the EU.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:27 am

Brendan O'Gorman wrote: Interesting, but my understanding is that Parliament is free to frame new legislation as it chooses, amending or revoking previous laws as it sees fit, unless specifically prevented by supra-national treaties such as those constituting membership of the EU.
As you say, Parliament is free to change laws, but until it does so, bodies like the Sports Council appear to be sheltering behind the Council of Europe definitions. These permit Rambling to receive sports funding on the grounds of physical exertion.

Chess did receive funding perhaps from the political imperative to challenge or influence the Soviet Union. This survived the demise of that state by many years. Perhaps Bletchley Park was too secret for governments of the 1940s and later to spot the potentially useful nature of talent spotting for top chess players. I do however recall that CHO'DA made periodic visits giving talks to the University chess club even as late as my era and that a handful of contemporaries have been later disclosed to have become GCHQ employees.

Paul Buswell
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Paul Buswell » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:43 am

Mike Gunn wrote:Paolo, as other people have responded on the grading point I will just say something about recognition as a sport. The BCF started campaigning for this at least 15 years ago and it has remained an aim. Although we have received some support from British MPs and even the odd minister the real difficulty is opposition from other sports. When I spoke to somebody I knew on the Sports Council about 10 years ago I asked her why there was opposition to us she said "we have no problem with chess, but it is regarded as the thin end of the wedge: if we let in chess then how can we say no to darts?". So you could say it's the British class system that is stopping recognition and that shows no sign of disappearing.
Longer than 15 years Mike.... when I was with BCF I remember attending a meeting at Sports Council with Sir Stuart Milner-Barry and David Anderton in the late 1970s. Then too the lack of a clear physical component in chess (at least one visible to the layman) was the sticking point.

PB

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Stewart Reuben » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:42 pm

Alex >1. Lobby FIDE to allow G/90 to be rated. We've tried; so far, we've been unsuccessful.<

That is news to me. Possibly the lobbyists didn't think to contact me or the rest of the Qualification Commission.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:34 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:Alex >1. Lobby FIDE to allow G/90 to be rated. We've tried; so far, we've been unsuccessful.<

That is news to me. Possibly the lobbyists didn't think to contact me or the rest of the Qualification Commission.
That was Jack, not me! :P

John Upham
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by John Upham » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:30 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote: Possibly the lobbyists didn't think to contact me or the rest of the Qualification Commission.
What are the contact details for this august body?
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

David Sedgwick
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:44 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Stewart Reuben wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:1. Lobby FIDE to allow G/90 to be rated. We've tried; so far, we've been unsuccessful.
That is news to me. Possibly the lobbyists didn't think to contact me or the rest of the Qualification Commission.
That was Jack, not me! :P
I suspect Jack may have had in mind some comments which I believe I made on this Forum some time ago. I did indeed seek such a change at a meeting of the Qualification Commission which I attended at the 2008 FIDE Congress in Dresden. You (Stewart) were present to the best of my recollection.
John Upham wrote:What are the contact details for this august body?
http://www.fide.com/fide/directory/fide ... =committee

However, the next opportunity to request changes is not until 2016.

Simon Spivack
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Simon Spivack » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:31 pm

John Upham wrote:Just landed is this letter from the Moscow Federation to the Mayor of London:


MOSCOW CHESS FEDERATION
12 Begovaya St., Moscow, Russia, 125284
+7 (495) 945-75-22; moschess@mail.ru


Boris Johnson
Mayor of London


Dear Mayor Johnson,

Moscow, like London, is one of the world’s chess capitals, and Moscow Chess Federation applauds London for hosting the first Grand Prix in the new World Chess Championship Cycle.

Now London can build upon the Grand Prix and presence of the top world’s grandmasters by supporting chess in the city’s schools and chess clubs. It has been proven that playing chess has a beneficial impact on academic performance in schools and London could play a key role in the revival of the sport in England – a country with a proud history in the game. And London is nearly as cold and wet as Moscow during the dark winter months. What better sport than chess to occupy our efforts?!

I am delighted to invite you to visit the tournament that is currently taking place at Simpson’s-in-the-Strand between 12 of the world’s top grandmasters. Please feel free to contact me if you would like to attend on any day prior to the tournament’s conclusion on 3 October.

Thank you for supporting chess,
Sincerely,


Vladimir Palikhata,
President
Moscow Chess Federation
An interesting web page is now available in English. I wonder how long it will last?

John Upham
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by John Upham » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:03 pm

Simon,

Hopefully the "way-back machine" will archive the content of this site.

I believe there is a way of provoking an archive to be made by request.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:20 am

Simon Spivack wrote:An interesting web page is now available in English. I wonder how long it will last?
I did notice a reference to Kalmyk Republic. Otherwise fights between Russian oligarchs is of little interest in the UK , perhaps other than when they are owners of Football Clubs or Chess Federations.

Dewi Jones
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Dewi Jones » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:16 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Ihor Lewyk wrote: I don't understand your estimated figures however, and I don't see what relevance a seperate grading system has with a loss to the ECF.
I was trying to estimate the number of games played in the local Yorkshire leagues which aren't graded. So if a league has 30 teams, each with 6 boards and each team plays 10 matches, then the number of games played is per team is 60 so that's 1800 over the league. If you divide by two because of two players, that's 900 games per league. If there are 6 leagues of this size, that's 5400 games in total. Another way of looking at it, is to say there are 1080 players.

Adult leagues have usually opted for (a), whilst some junior organisations have opted for (b) or (c).
Roger,Wales just got a draw, away from home against a decent team, so I'm pissed as a fart and unable to explain properly. Your maths here is miles out, if I remember this tomorrow, I'll come on and explain, but briefly, one team plays ten matches as you say, the next team (excluding the two fixtures you've already counted against team one) plays 8 matches, not 10. The third team playsb6 matches. Etc etc

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:30 am

Dewi Jones wrote: I'll come on and explain, but briefly, one team plays ten matches as you say, the next team (excluding the two fixtures you've already counted against team one) plays 8 matches, not 10. The third team playsb6 matches. Etc etc
I'm using the old BCF/ECF method of half games. 11 teams of 6 players, single round. Each player assuming no substitutions plays 10 games. so each team plays 60 games. There are 11 teams so 660 half games in total or 330 full ones. You can get there from the 10,9,8 etc. summation but the direct route is shorter.

Your method - Total number of games played by each team is 6 * ( 10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1) = 330 as before

Dewi Jones
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Re: Letter to Mayor of London from Moscow Federation

Post by Dewi Jones » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:58 am

See, told you I was drunk :)

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