Samisch King's Indian

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Robert Stokes
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:51 pm

Samisch King's Indian

Post by Robert Stokes » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:20 pm

I usually start as white with 1 d4 and then c4 to most replies. If my opponent uses the King's Indian defence then I use the Samisch variation. I have a book which states that black's strategy is to use e5 (or possibly c5) to try to induce white to make the advance d4 - d5.

"...try to induce..." rather suggests that the move d4 - d5 is bad (or at least not that good) for white but why? Surely after 1 d4, Nf6 2 c4, g6 3 Nc3, Bg7 4 e4, d6 5 f3 0-0 6 Be3 e5 7 d5 the pawns on c4, d5, e4, f3 are a good set up for white. If black then plays c6 with the intention of exchanging pawns on d5, the d6 pawn becomes backward and will surely be a liability for black.

It further says that black's plan is to make the advance f7 - f5 but to do this means moving the knight on f6. Where should it go? The only sensible place seems to be d7 but this prevents the b8 knight from moving unless it has already done so and also blocks the c8 bishop. Please could someone explain what I have missed.

Robert

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Samisch King's Indian

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:01 pm

Robert Stokes wrote: Please could someone explain what I have missed.
Whether White plays d5 in those position is a matter of style as anything else. Some players like space with blocked pawn chains, others prefer to maintain the tension and provoke Black into cxd4 or exd4. With playing c7-c6, the downside is the weak d6 pawn, the upside is the queen having some squares b6 and a5 to get into the game. Also if combined with a later f7-f5, the d5 pawn can be undermined.

As far as playing f7-f5 is concerned, the Knight on f6 will need to move, but it can go to e8 and h5 as well as d7. Under limited circumstances h7 as well. A frequent idea is "Knight somewhere, f7-f5, then Knight back to f6"

Books can sometimes over simplify matters. Below the super GM level there are numerous plausible lines and plans in openings such as the Kings Indian, many of which have been tried and tested by many generations of players.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Samisch King's Indian

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:47 pm

A lot of the time, black isn't so much wanting to provoke d4-d5 as he is wanting to provoke something; he can handle d5 and he can handle dxe5, but he would like to know as early as possible which is happening so he can develop his pieces accordingly.

Robert Stokes
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Re: Samisch King's Indian

Post by Robert Stokes » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:09 am

Thank you both for your answers. They have definitely helped my understanding.

Robert

Giulio Simeone
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Re: Samisch King's Indian

Post by Giulio Simeone » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:51 pm

Robert Stokes wrote:I usually start as white with 1 d4 and then c4 to most replies. If my opponent uses the King's Indian defence then I use the Samisch variation. I have a book which states that black's strategy is to use e5 (or possibly c5) to try to induce white to make the advance d4 - d5.

"...try to induce..." rather suggests that the move d4 - d5 is bad (or at least not that good) for white but why? Surely after 1 d4, Nf6 2 c4, g6 3 Nc3, Bg7 4 e4, d6 5 f3 0-0 6 Be3 e5 7 d5 the pawns on c4, d5, e4, f3 are a good set up for white.
Hello Robert,
twenty years ago, when I started to play tournament chess, I read about the Samisch King's Indian on a book of Raymond Keene, I liked it, I started to use it and I did so all over these twenty years. Probably now I won't choose such a variation, because I like quick development and open positions; though, I continue to use it because I don't want to waste such a long-time experience.

f3 is not a developing move, better said, it makes white's development more complicated, because it subtracts the f3 square to the knight. Moreover, it weakens a bit the king's position in the event of a kingside castling, the king in g1 can be checked by the queen in b6 and c5, and by the bishop in d4.

Why, then, many players use the Samisch variation? The idea is to create a very solid pawn structure: the pawn f3 reinforces the e4 pawn and can support the g4 pawn in the event of a kingside pawn storm. Moreover, when white plays Be3 without f3 in some variations black can attack it with ...Ng4, clearing immediately the way to the g7 bishop and the f5 pawn.

After the moves


it can be even said that black has a developing advantage. Therefore, when black tries to open the centre with ...c5 or ...e5, often the only thing that white can do to try to get a better position, is to close the centre with d5. When he doesn't, he can even get slaughtered in the opening. In a closed position, it takes more time to build an attack and development becomes less important, while a strong advanced pawn that controls two squares in black's territory, becomes more important. Even if black has developed more quickly, is not very easy for him to place his pieces aggressively and to get a dynamic compensation, because he lacks space. For example, given the strong pawn chain c4 - d5 - e4 - f3, where does the black's light squared bishop go? As you already pointed out, in order to win more space for his pieces, often black removes the knight from f6 and pushes in f5; but the move f3 has prevented ...Ng4 - that's another point! - and wherever else the knight goes, it is not placed very well, in d7 it obstacles the queen's bishop, in e8 it obstacles the king's rook and in h5 sometimes white can attack it with g4 starting a kingside pawn storm.

Another thing that black can do is to seek space on the queenside by ...c5 and ...b5, as in the variation



White will try to put the two black knights in trouble with f4, Nf3 and e5; black will often reply with ...Qa5, ...Bd7 and ...b5.