FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
User avatar
Dave Ewart
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:53 pm
Location: Oxford, UK

FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Dave Ewart » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:12 pm

Reading http://www.londonchessclassic.com/fidel ... lawchanges "A player is forbidden having a mobile phone and/or other electronic means of communication in the playing venue. If it is evident that the player brought such a device into the playing venue he shall lose the game. The opponent shall win."

What are the general thoughts on this? This is an change to the current rule and seems to exclude the possibliity of leaving one's phone switched off in pocket or, as I do, removing its battery and leaving phone and battery in separate pockets: I'm paranoid about an OFF phone accidentally switching ON in a pocket, especially since mine has such a noisy 'fanfare' when booting up!

The above link suggests: "So, leave it at home, in the car or at your hotel room." which I don't think is such a good idea, safety-wise (theft) or practically (need to contact people between rounds etc.)

Ray Sayers

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Ray Sayers » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:42 pm

About time.

Should be some way of storing phones with the arbiters too though. If I took the train to an event I would want a phone on me for childcare related emergencies or to say if I would be late home. I wouldn't want to take my phone into the hall or leave it at home.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 18344
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:59 pm

Ray Sayers wrote: Should be some way of storing phones with the arbiters too though. If I took the train to an event I would want a phone on me for childcare related emergencies or to say if I would be late home. I wouldn't want to take my phone into the hall or leave it at home.
Read on though.
However, based on tournament practice the next article could create some relief ...”The rules of a competition may specify a different, less severe, penalty.” You better make sure at the start of a tournament which rules apply, and organisers should think about the best way to treat this issue in advance.
I thought that was intended to allow organisers to continue with the present rule or convention which allows the presence of a phone provided it is switched off and remains silent for the entire game. You wouldn't have much choice if league matches were to continue to be played more or less under FIDE rules.

Any Congress trying to apply the strict standard of no mobiles present is liable to find itself with a shortage of entries, from those travelling to the event by public transport as a minimum.

David Williams
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:37 pm

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by David Williams » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:28 pm

Is it only me that isn't worried in the least at his opponent "having a mobile phone and/or other electronic means of communication", and not overly bothered if it makes a noise, but would be very concerned at him having an electronic means of analysing chess games?

User avatar
Dave Ewart
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:53 pm
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Dave Ewart » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:40 pm

David Williams wrote:Is it only me that isn't worried in the least at his opponent "having a mobile phone and/or other electronic means of communication", and not overly bothered if it makes a noise, but would be very concerned at him having an electronic means of analysing chess games?
I guess the point is that most modern smart phones are both a communications device and a means of analysing chess games.

I hope all the congresses I attend will be of the "It's OK if it's switched off" variety.

Ray Sayers

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Ray Sayers » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:20 pm

Switching it off but having it on your person is pointless. I mean, if someone is going to analyse in the toilet, they will just switch it on in there, then switch it back off. Better not to have it on you, or be securely stored where the Arbiters can see it.

Clive Blackburn

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Clive Blackburn » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:43 pm

Dave Ewart wrote:
David Williams wrote:Is it only me that isn't worried in the least at his opponent "having a mobile phone and/or other electronic means of communication", and not overly bothered if it makes a noise, but would be very concerned at him having an electronic means of analysing chess games?
I guess the point is that most modern smart phones are both a communications device and a means of analysing chess games.

I hope all the congresses I attend will be of the "It's OK if it's switched off" variety.
Even if the phone doesn't have any chess engine installed, it is still possible to analyse via the web.

Also, there is the possibility of receiving advice by text message from someone who had been watching the game - this is even more of a danger in top level tournaments, where it is possible to follow the games online.

Richard Bates
Posts: 3009
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:56 pm

I think it somewhat unlikely that organisers/arbiters would be able to, or want the responsibility for, securely storing thousands of pounds worth of mobile communications equipment.

(I would hope that) this is a law designed to provide a framework for organisers of top level tournaments, generally where the vast majority of participants are staying at or very close to the venue (so have no need of carrying their phones with them). I am very confident the law will be seen in this light by almost all organisers in this country. Whether the same will be true on the Continent, where the perception (if not the reality?) is of many not just imposing some of FIDE's draconian ideas grudgingly but with relish, is another matter...

User avatar
David Shepherd
Posts: 855
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:46 pm

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by David Shepherd » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:19 pm

I would favour removing the default for mobile phone ringing (replacing it with a time penalty) and banning players from having mobile phones during a game unless they are left turned off and clearly visible on the table throughout the game (so a phone that turns itself on just results in a time penalty). The main problem with this would be that a few might go missing so I'm not 100% sure!

User avatar
Dave Ewart
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:53 pm
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Dave Ewart » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:24 pm

Ray Sayers wrote:Switching it off but having it on your person is pointless. I mean, if someone is going to analyse in the toilet, they will just switch it on in there, then switch it back off. Better not to have it on you, or be securely stored where the Arbiters can see it.
My point regarding keeping it on one's person but switched off is not designed to address the (hopefully rare) "analysis in the toilets" problem. It is to address the, in my opinion, rather heavy-handed blanket ban of mobile phones at a venue.

User avatar
Dave Ewart
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:53 pm
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Dave Ewart » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:30 pm

Richard Bates wrote:I think it somewhat unlikely that organisers/arbiters would be able to, or want the responsibility for, securely storing thousands of pounds worth of mobile communications equipment.
Quite so. And, given that chess players are (evidence to the contrary notwithstanding) Normal Members Of Society, and almost all such people have a mobile phone, a ban on the carrying of a mobile phone at a venue seems rather heavy-handed in my opinion.

A further thought occurs to me: how would such a ban be enforced in practice? Would all participants be searched each time they enter the playing area? Or, given that any shenanigans are likely to take place outside the playing area, searched each time they leave the playing area??

Just thinking out loud, really.

shaunpress
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:41 am

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by shaunpress » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:09 am

I've just finished running a small (60 odd players) weekend event in Australia, where I provided a storage facility for phones and other communication devices. As it was a trial, it was only voluntary, but the process was a simple one. Players who wished to store there phones simply switched them off, wrote their name on a post-it note which they stuck to the phone, and handed it to me. I kept them at the arbiters desk and they could then collect them at the end of the round. While there wasn't a complete take up (I probably stored around a dozen phones), the feed back was interesting. One player thought it was a great idea, as he could then play without being concerned about his opponent sneaking off to the toilets for a bit of analysis. Others thought it was fine, as it avoided any phone 'accidents' they might fall victim too (ie low battery beeps etc). As for the question of 'why?' I repeated a remark I saw on another chess forum. If they were playing a sport like football or tennis, they wouldn't tuck their phone into their sock 'just in case someone was trying to contact them'. They instead would leave it in a locker or dressing room to collect after the game. This is just the same system.
Only one player forgot to collect their phone at the end of the day.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 3257
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:00 am

"I think it somewhat unlikely that organisers/arbiters would be able to, or want the responsibility for, securely storing thousands of pounds worth of mobile communications equipment."

Too right! I would have to add, "carry disposable gloves" to the list of items to carry to a tournament.

"(I would hope that) this is a law designed to provide a framework for organisers of top level tournaments, generally where the vast majority of participants are staying at or very close to the venue (so have no need of carrying their phones with them). I am very confident the law will be seen in this light by almost all organisers in this country. Whether the same will be true on the Continent, where the perception (if not the reality?) is of many not just imposing some of FIDE's draconian ideas grudgingly but with relish, is another matter..."

I am sure this is right as well. For the most part you don't need the phone with you, so can leave it in the hotel room or the glove box of the car, where appropriate. Arriving by public transport is more of a problem, but not as much as evening leagues where you might go straight from work
"
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 18344
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:58 am

shaunpress wrote: They instead would leave it in a locker or dressing room to collect after the game. This is just the same system.
Not being a physical sport, there isn't a need for special clothing to play chess. So locker and dressing rooms aren't part of the setup at chess events. If you look at playing chess as a leisure activity rather than a sport, having to forfeit a phone, rather than just having it switched off looks somewhat less sensible.

Phone calls were the original problem because they were noisy, particularly if someone answered the call, but is the cheating risk now the bigger issue? While it might be obvious if someone took their laptop with them to the toilets, tablet computers can be somewhat smaller. So if an event is going to ban the possession of smart phones because of the cheating risk, should this not also apply to tablets and laptops? I could be uneasy at tournaments if I see supporters, often parents, using computers in areas shared with players, for instance a lobby outside a playing room.

There was a thread on here a little while ago about whether players should be allowed to leave the board when it was their move. Some arbiters thought it was still OK.

Ian Kingston
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:16 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield
Contact:

Re: FIDE rule change: no phones in playing venue AT ALL

Post by Ian Kingston » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:11 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:So if an event is going to ban the possession of smart phones because of the cheating risk, should this not also apply to tablets and laptops?
The law refers to 'other electronic means of communication', so those are already dealt with.

I'm waiting for someone with a hearing aid to be accused of cheating.

Post Reply