Attention Congress Players

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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:58 am

Martin Crichton wrote:Interesting comment John
we can probably look at the UK model as an example

among the top chess pros... probably Adams and Short are doing well... then there is a big drop in ratings to the likes of Hebden, Cherniev, Arkell etc..
In fairness to Mark he is 132 points higher than Cherniaev :oops:

stevencarr

Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by stevencarr » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:10 pm

Martin Crichton wrote: What would the average salary in the UK be? maybe £28k?

certainly Adams and Short would be making a good living from chess.. the rest of the professional players? I doubt it.
How much would the equivalent world-ranked tennis player to Hebden earn per year?

Not very much.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by Adam Raoof » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:27 pm

stevencarr wrote:
Martin Crichton wrote: What would the average salary in the UK be? maybe £28k?

certainly Adams and Short would be making a good living from chess.. the rest of the professional players? I doubt it.
How much would the equivalent world-ranked tennis player to Hebden earn per year?

Not very much.
Let's say that Mark is 500th in the world. He is also a very active player.

Looking at the world tennis rankings from 501 down

http://www.atpworldtour.com/rankings/si ... 3&r=501&c=#

the active players don't earn that much - maybe $8- or $9,000 at most, but that won't include sponsorship deals, if any. It also won't include their doubles winnings - many are better at doubles, and it pays well.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Play ... euchi.aspx

I suppose there is no equivalent in chess.

Simon Brown
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by Simon Brown » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:53 pm

Adam, your example isn't quite right. The first figure is 2013 earnings, the second is career earnings, all forms of tennis. So this guy is 26 and has earned $9k this year and $67k in his career, or about £40k. Assuming he turned pro at age 21, that is £8k a year. There won't be any sponsors that far down - GB's Dan Evans got his first sponsorship deal just recently when he got to the third round of the US Open, and before that he was about number 250.

I would guess Mark, who is about 450 in the world, earns more than that each year.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by MartinCarpenter » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:20 pm

I hope he does one way or another! From what I can tell from the example I know of, survival on writing chess books/articles etc seems to be possible but astonishingly hard work.

John Upham
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by John Upham » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:29 pm

I will don my "Mystic Meg" hat and predict a comment from regular bloggers along the lines of:
MartinCarpenter wrote: survival on writing chess books/articles etc seems to be possible but astonishingly hard work.
"This work ethic is eased somewhat by recycling material from other persons publications without attribution along with past publications from ones own portfolio" :D
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:30 pm

Also the expenses of being a tennis player are much higher than chess.
However, in some countries, including Britain, there is income from coaching in each of chess and tennis.
In chess, particularly in this country, there is additional income from writing.
We have reason to be envious of football and golf players and the superstars of other sports, but few others.
Some bridge players make good money by being paid to partner players. Rubber bridge, poker and backgammon can't be compared.
There is a culture of playing blitz for money, but not in this country. I used to do so in NY in the 1960s, Roelof Westra did so in Montreal.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:07 pm

Though it was possible to find high-stakes blitz chess in London not so very long ago, I believe. (I say so from anecdote rather than experience.)
Last edited by JustinHorton on Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Martin Crichton
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by Martin Crichton » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:26 pm

these various comparisons to other sports are a bit off topic...however if we assume Mark Hebden is your typical average UK professional chess player (and he may be among the higher earning ones IMO) my point is that I would guess he is still earning a lot less than your average Joe with an average Job in the street.

A career in chess is not a good choice!

In london for example I cannot imagine anyone surviving on less than £500 take home pay a week. Unless they have very little outgoings - maybe young with no family, no mortgage - still living and relying on the bank of mum and dad.

Will chess provide this essential income on a regular basis? Keep chess as a hobby and choose a career in a sector that pays well.
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my views are not representative of any clubs or organisations.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:38 pm

When I was graduating I had an interview in 1961 with Unilever. They asked me what I would regard as success in my career. I responded, 'Waking up in the morning and thinking, Oh good, work today.' I have never changed my mind.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by Nick Burrows » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:39 pm

Martin Crichton wrote: A career in chess is not a good choice!
.
I suppose it depends upon what motivates you. Spending a lifetime in some inane job, or following your passion - and sacrificing money to do so. If you live out of London you can live a lot more modestly. I say congratulations to the lucky few who get to play 'for a living'!

Martin Crichton
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by Martin Crichton » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:47 pm

interesting sentiment...no doubt as a chess euthusiast you might think that playing chess for a living is a fantastic career because you are doing something you enjoy!

I doubt very much wheter most professional chess players feel that way. Most look like they are suffering at various stages wheter it is in a single game or a long succession of tournaments....

Ian Rogers retired recently on medical grounds...in his interview he states that his GP informed him that chess was not good for his health! Chess is a mental drain to any serious player. Might explain why it is a young persons game at the top level...after 40 you are over the hill :)
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Nick Burrows
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by Nick Burrows » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:22 pm

interesting sentiment...no doubt as a chess euthusiast you might think that playing chess for a living is a fantastic career because you are doing something you enjoy!
Not necessarily a 'fantastic career', but then some people would rather pursue their own interests than fulfilling a lifetime of dull, monotonous work!
Ian Rogers retired recently on medical grounds...in his interview he states that his GP informed him that chess was not good for his health! Chess is a mental drain to any serious player. Might explain why it is a young persons game at the top level..after 40 you are over the hill :)
But then you have Victor Korchnoi who and the reports of chess helping you to keep your marbles as a pensioner. Also Mark Hebden may disagree about being over the hill...

John McKenna
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by John McKenna » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:28 pm

Stewart Reuben>When I was graduating I had an interview in 1961 with Unilever. They asked me what I would regard as success in my career. I responded, 'Waking up in the morning and thinking, Oh good, work today....<

Hi Stewart, instead of graduating I had an interview with Unilever in the 1970s. Don't recall that they asked me what I'd regard as success in my career but I do remember thinking at the time - "Get up in the morning, slaving for bread, sir, so that every mouth can be fed..."
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Attention Congress Players

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:54 pm

>Ian Rogers retired recently on medical grounds...in his interview he states that his GP informed him that chess was not good for his health!<

Ian was taking a diuretic to help with his kidney function. WADA bans the use of diuretics because they can mask steroids. So he gave up the diuretic and continued playing chess. Commonsense later came to the FIDE Medical Commission in the form of Dr Jana Bellin as chairman, had he consulted her, he wouldn't have given them up. Presumably when he retired from chess, he had a healthier life syle because there were then no nonsensical strictures against taking pills that were good for you.

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