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Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:57 pm
by Andrew Zigmond
Alistair Campbell wrote:
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Assault is assault, simple as.
Unless it's battery? I'd always understood, perhaps incorrectly, that assault didn't involve physical contact. Once the punches allegedly start flying, then it's battery, or GBH or ABH or something. Of course, that is English law, and Irish law is different. (As is Scots Law, in this case. Incidentally, I believe "the big man" in the Polmont station incident was never prosecuted).

More importantly, do we know how the grading prizes were to be awarded??
In that it's not acceptable in any context was my (not very well made) point. Of course there are degrees of assault.

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:40 pm
by John Moore
If I ever play chess in Ireland again, I shall be very nervous about using the toilet cubicles (for my mid-morning read of the paper) in case some crazed nutter batters the door down.

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:45 pm
by IanDavis
Of course, this isn't the first case of assault involving a minor at a tournament held in Cork. :)

I wonder if they should have published the results table in a circumstance like this...

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:52 pm
by Andrew Zigmond
IanDavis wrote:Of course, this isn't the first case of assault involving a minor at a tournament held in Cork. :)

I wonder if they should have published the results table in a circumstance like this...
Agreed as everybody knows the name of the minor involved in this incident now. The table could have been published with the name redacted.

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:53 pm
by IM Jack Rudd
IanDavis wrote:I wonder if they should have published the results table in a circumstance like this...
Yes, they should. Failure to publish a results table automatically triggers a "what's going on?" response, and draws attention to the tournament anyway.

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:57 pm
by John Moore
And puts all the juniors under suspicion?

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:20 pm
by Paul Douglass
Said "victim" should have shut up. It transpires he is not whiter than white.

With regards to the "suspected" cheat - lets hope it wasn't true. If so, a blanket ban from competitive chess is the only punishment. Punitive but fair.

Why people cheat at this game is beyond me. Grading obsessed freaks if you ask me (not as it there's plenty of cash to obsess about!).

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:22 pm
by Andrew Zigmond
The most recent board minutes have surfaced on another thread. http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... -Final.pdf

Of interest is reference (page 3) to another cheating incident involving a junior and a mobile phone app. Is this the same one; the lapse of time and the fact that this thread refers to an incident in Ireland makes me suspect not.

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:32 pm
by IanDavis
Why are these in the January 2010 folder?

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:35 pm
by Andrew Zigmond
Paul Douglass wrote:Said "victim" should have shut up. It transpires he is not whiter than white.

With regards to the "suspected" cheat - lets hope it wasn't true. If so, a blanket ban from competitive chess is the only punishment. Punitive but fair.

Why people cheat at this game is beyond me. Grading obsessed freaks if you ask me (not as it there's plenty of cash to obsess about!).
Given that he was only sixteen I'm assuming you mean a temporary ban rather than a permanant one. That said, given that he's already reaped a far harsher punishment than he deserved and was presumably left shaken at the very least, it will probably be a while before he has the stomach to look at a chess board again.

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:57 pm
by Roger de Coverly
Andrew Zigmond wrote: Of interest is reference (page 3) to another cheating incident involving a junior and a mobile phone app. Is this the same one; the lapse of time and the fact that this thread refers to an incident in Ireland makes me suspect not.
The ECF board meeting was in March and the Cork incident in April. I don't think they are connected other than a possible perception by younger players that they can try it on.

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:02 am
by Christopher Kreuzer
I'm wondering what the right way is to act when you suspect something like this is going on. I've not seen any sign that the ECF are going to issue any guidance or that they have procedures in place to issue sanctions. What would people here suggest would be appropriate guidance for: (i) A player who suspects their opponent is utilising external assistance? (ii) A player who is accused by their opponent of utilising external assistance? (iii) An organiser who is asked to deal with allegations that a player is utilising external assistance?

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:05 am
by Andrew Zigmond
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Andrew Zigmond wrote: Of interest is reference (page 3) to another cheating incident involving a junior and a mobile phone app. Is this the same one; the lapse of time and the fact that this thread refers to an incident in Ireland makes me suspect not.
The ECF board meeting was in March and the Cork incident in April. I don't think they are connected other than a possible perception by younger players that they can try it on.
Or that it's rife generally and that teenagers are more likely to be challenged than adult players.

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:07 am
by IM Jack Rudd
(i) is easy enough: summon the arbiter. (ii) is also easy enough: co-operate with the arbiter's investigation. (iii) is a lot trickier, and will depend upon the case.

Re: Chess row in Cork

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:16 am
by Roger de Coverly
Andrew Zigmond wrote: Or that it's rife generally and that teenagers are more likely to be challenged than adult players.
If you want to avoid accusations, you stay at or near the board for the whole duration of the game.