Chess row in Cork

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Sean Hewitt
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:48 pm


IanDavis
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by IanDavis » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:09 pm

Of course, there have been allegations of cheating in the past. For instance, a blind player found his clock time was lacking...
In this world, there is always a way for somebody to cheat.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:39 pm

Richard James wrote:More here.

"I did not assault him. I made a citizen's arrest..."

Hmm.


And now (from Sean's link)

"... I was afraid he would throw the tablet into the toilet."



Is it me or is this guy not coming across as the most balanced individual who ever pushed a pawn?

IanDavis
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by IanDavis » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:54 pm

It is just you

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:13 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote: Is it me or is this guy not coming across as the most balanced individual who ever pushed a pawn?
It does seem he could learn a few lessons from the world's tallest GM in how to bust your opponent for computer use.

I suspect a history of conflict within the ICU, the guy being the ex-Secretary after all. According to his own report at the ICU site, he got involved in a dispute concerning rule changes on that old subject of whether and how often you could bus in, or in this case fly in, stars to make them eligible for a national competition.

It's evident that he's driving the press reports, but he doesn't seem to have done anything to correct the impression that he was up there with Simon W and the other titled players in the Open, or that he was in fact a point behind the leader of his section at the time of the disputed game.

Martin Crichton
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Martin Crichton » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:30 am

A very hot topic indeed but my initial reaction is to side with the victim of the cheating here. Unless you have been a victim yourself you cannot comprehend the empty feeling you have during a game suspecting your opponent is cheating....

I think Gabriel Mirza is a hero and should be applauded for his actions. He called the controllers and then after the young criminal failed to come out of the cubicle despite being asked by the controllers only Mr. Mirza has the courage to go a step further and break down the door and haul him out.

Mr. Mirza has made enemies on the ICU exec during his tenure there recently as secretary and many people are using this incident as a weapon to destroy him. He has already been reported to the schools he was teaching in and one of the 2 schools has suspended him.

The focus here should be on the cheat. I understand that his parents are wealthy and that he goes to one of the most expensive private schools in Dublin...Gonzaga. The equivalent of Eton in the UK.

The first time a burglar is caught by the police they estimate he has already committed dozens , sometimes hundreds of burgalaries beforehand so the likihood that this is a first offence is very slim.

The cheater is well educated and proficient in the use of computers so there is a strong possibility that he has done this many times before. All of his previous games in the last 12 months should be under suspicion in my opinion.

And finally lets not forget the shame on the parents and the school, assuming that the parents are of moral good upbringing? that too now has a shadow!
But lets assume they are completely innocent of the knowledge of the boys cheating... they and his school should now focus on rehabilitating the young offender...was it only chess he was cheating at? I hear cheating at exams with electronic devices is also now a huge topic......

And finally the ICU'S recent response to the Irish independant was rather lame saying that this was the first time such an incident occured in our 100 year history of the beautiful game...but that the game will survive..paraphrased from memory.

I have know idea about the outcome of the disciplinary committees but I should hope a 12 month suspension for the cheat would be a minimum... there are too many lenient sentences for cheats these days....

We need to send a clear message that cheating at chess will not be tolerated.
Member of "the strongest amateur chess club in London" (Cavendish)

my views are not representative of any clubs or organisations.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:53 am

While I agree with some of the sentiments expressed by Martin Crichton above, can I suggest that some of the specific accusations and insinuations be toned down or removed? Especially the ones not related to chess. Carl has a difficult enough job running this forum as it is, let's not make it harder for him.

IanDavis
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by IanDavis » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:05 am

I would imagine that the ICU would be very careful to avoid any suggestion of discrimination against Mr Girza. Therefore, they will have to remove from their little committees all those who tried to throw him off the executive for taking the wrong side in the NCC fiasco. Likewise, anyone associated with Gonzaga, would have to be removed from the other half of the process.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:05 am

" “It has been insinuated that one chess player was caught cheating and the reaction of the opposing player discovering this was inappropriate,” the union said in an earlier statement.

“In the 100 years of our existence we have never had such allegation; a record we can be very proud of. We have a code of conduct that all our players adhere to; it is there to allow our members to play chess in a sporting environment.” "

The first sentence is wonderful! I too cannot believe that there have been no accusations of cheating in 100 years. I did notice that the player who was kicked out (presumably) for cheating still had points for earlier games - I would have thought that his previous opponents may be unhappy about this.

Martin Crichton makes some good points - I have noticed from experience at cricket, hockey and chess etc., that some pupils and staff at fancy schools tend to think they can do what they like.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:13 am

The bit that I thought was overdone from the ICU was this:

"[...] there is sadness at the thought that the gentle game of chess can indeed be tainted [...] Nonetheless the ancient and beautiful game of chess will transcend these difficulties"

Gentle game? Able to transcend difficulties? Really? I'll give them that chess is "ancient and beautiful".

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:47 am

Kevin Thurlow quoting ICU wrote: “In the 100 years of our existence we have never had such allegation; a record we can be very proud of. We have a code of conduct that all our players adhere to; it is there to allow our members to play chess in a sporting environment.” "
I lose track of whether the Ulster Chess Union is still part of the ICU, but it is suggested they have had their own parallel incident.

http://ballynafeighchess.wordpress.com/ ... ws-gossip/

IanDavis
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by IanDavis » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:47 am

There is a general question that comes out this, independent of the guilt or innocence of the parties involved.
We've probably all come across players that tried to cheat, is the crime of using a computer to cheat that much more severe? It's very high profile and topical, but is it worse than a word in the ear from a team mate e.g. "will i sac and try for the win?" "go for it"
For comparison: In the chess journalism: plagerism is usually considered to be a minor thing

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:53 am

IanDavis wrote: but is it worse than a word in the ear from a team mate e.g. "will i sac and try for the win?" "go for it"
At the level of the cheat in the Cork event, it was the equivalent of asking one of the players in the Open for advice at nearly every move. This is the problem now, when the advice was low quality, it could be regarded as a minor issue.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Geoff Chandler » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:54 am

Edit - Roger posted before me.
I have spent the last 30 minutes just reading all their site.

This site, 'Ballynafeighchess' cover chess in Northen Ireland.

http://ballynafeighchess.wordpress.com/ ... ws-gossip/

It's take on this matter is quite humerous and has two brilliant pictures
that will brighten up your day.

It also alludes to a cheating incident using electronic means on turf own turf.
It starts:

"We in Ulster chess can remember our own strikingly similar incident very recently
but were blessed that our most experienced arbiter David McAlister was on duty
at the tournament in question, we were also fortunate that the aggrieved player
who was being cheated had the good sense not to take matters into his own hands
but let the controlling arbiter make the decisions."

Infact reading the whole site on different chess matters is very entertaining.
They mention a squabble about eating crisps while playing and an Aprl Fool's Joke
claiming George Clooney and Jessica Alba, who were filming in Ireland at the time
asked to play in the Ulster Chess Championships but were not allowed by
the tournament committee.

The media fell for it and a frenzy follwed with their national papers and radio
getting involved including Radio Scotland.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:19 pm

Martin Crichton wrote:
I think Gabriel Mirza is a hero and should be applauded for his actions.
The main area of dispute here is what level of force was used. It has been suggested that it went a bit further than simply `hauling him out of the toilet`. If this is proven to be the case then will Mr Crichton condemn it?

The cheat was disqualified from the tournament. Leaving aside the question of any ban (and given the way this has escalated he's probably not going to be rushing to enter any more events in any case) I'm not sure what else could have been reasonably done.
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