Chess row in Cork

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John Upham
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by John Upham » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:31 pm

Controllers said that with hindsight perhaps the Cork toilets should have raised some concerns
I also would be concerned about the use of cork toilets.
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IanDavis
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by IanDavis » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:17 pm

... and the composition of the two disciplinary committees has been declared. Let us sit back and see what they decide.
I notice that the official wording is "allegation of cheating", which seems to indicate that reports of an admission of guilt were misplaced.

Martin Crichton
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Martin Crichton » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:40 pm

The boy admitted to cheating. Both the boy and Mr. Mirza were disqualified from the tournament

excerpt above taken from official correspondance

as you say let the committees get on with it...

Composition of Disciplinary Sub-Committees
by Jonathan O'Connor (April 2013)

Following the statement made earlier, the members of the disciplinary committee looking at the allegation of cheating are:

•Charlie Talbot (chairman of the Leinster Chess Union)
•Rory Delaney (FIDE Arbiter, ICU tournament director)
•Kevin O'Flaherty (ICU secretary)
The members of the other disciplinary committee are:

•Gary O'Grady (ICU development officer)
•David McAlister (NI barrister, and former ICU chairman)
•John Delaney (former Irish chess champion, and former ICU vice chairman)
Member of "the strongest amateur chess club in London" (Cavendish)

my views are not representative of any clubs or organisations.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu May 09, 2013 11:05 am

Tim Harding now comments in his monthly column

http://www.chesscafe.com/kibitz/kibitz204.htm

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Greg Breed
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Greg Breed » Thu May 09, 2013 11:47 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:Tim Harding now comments in his monthly column

http://www.chesscafe.com/kibitz/kibitz204.htm
Having read the article I am still of the opinion, that although Mr Mirza's actions were overly aggressive (he should have let the controller handle the situation), he should not be banned from chess for any length. The issues with his actions are a matter of public law, not chess regulations. The latter are for the 16 year old boy who cheated and he should receive, at a minimum, some form of punishment from the chess authorities.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu May 09, 2013 11:50 am

I still wonder if the ECF would handle a similar incident in a manner as forthright as the ICU are doing, as the French, Germans and Italians did. Do the Bulgarians have any processes in place to address such things?

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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by John Upham » Thu May 09, 2013 12:29 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I still wonder if the ECF would handle a similar incident in a manner as forthright as the ICU are doing, as the French, Germans and Italians did. Do the Bulgarians have any processes in place to address such things?
I believe there was a similar matter during an event under the jurisdiction of the ECF. I am none the wiser as to the actions / inactions of the ECF on that incident.

Maybe the Acting CEO could enlighten us?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu May 09, 2013 12:55 pm

John Upham wrote: I believe there was a similar matter during an event under the jurisdiction of the ECF. I am none the wiser as to the actions / inactions of the ECF on that incident.
I thought it was known that the ECF got some promise of future good behaviour and the matter wasn't taken any further. The organiser disqualified the player from the tournament in question but took no further action, leaving that to the ECF.

More generally the ECF or tournament organisers could state the obvious:-
(a) it isn't acceptable to leave the board whilst your move except in very limited circumstances.
(b) Switching a phone off at the start of the game means it stays off for the duration of the game.

One of the aspects that comes out from Tim Harding's report was that there were a number of participants from the leading Dublin school and that they almost had the status of an official school squad in that there was an organiser and trainer. As it isn't disputed that cheating was taking place in the round 5 game, would it be reasonable to expect the school to make a statement disassociating itself from the actions of the player?

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Peter D Williams » Thu May 09, 2013 1:27 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote: I believe there was a similar matter during an event under the jurisdiction of the ECF. I am none the wiser as to the actions / inactions of the ECF on that incident.
I thought it was known that the ECF got some promise of future good behaviour and the matter wasn't taken any further. The organiser disqualified the player from the tournament in question but took no further action, leaving that to the ECF.

More generally the ECF or tournament organisers could state the obvious:-
(a) it isn't acceptable to leave the board whilst your move except in very limited circumstances.
([/quote]

Afternoon All :D

What action did the ECF take over this matter? Would other chess organizers know about this chess player caught cheating? he/she could enter other events and the opponent would not know he was playing some one who had been accused of cheating?

I think its OK to get up if its your move so long as you do not leave the playing room? most people get up when it not there turn to move. I do remember at an event seeing a junior who was still playing near to where rooms are that players/family's where staying in over night. He was a long way from the playing hall but of course i have no idea what he was doing, I did feel a little uneasy about it.
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Adam Raoof » Thu May 09, 2013 2:31 pm

At least some of my time as the 4th Arbiter at the London Candidates tournament was spent tracking players who left the playing area (in practice mainly those who went to the toilet) on their own move. If they had not left the playing area there would not have been a second glance at their behaviour. Leaving the playing area when it is your move is unusual, but doing it immediately upon seeing your opponent's move is really unusual. Nevertheless one player did that several times, and in his case I knew from experience that he conducted most of his analysis in his head and without looking at the position anyway, even when sitting at the board!

Of course in a large tournament one might be concerned that absent players were scouring the other boards for some inspiration!
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Krishna Shiatis
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Thu May 09, 2013 4:45 pm

In my short time as a chess parent, I have seen some cases (I think) of cheating. Some blatant (coaches/parents instructing kids during a game) some less blatant where people are running out frequently on their own move and throughout the game. On one occasion the person in question left the board 16 times in just one game. I told the arbiter who was quite elderly, but he could not keep up with the disappearing person.

It does raise the question about toilets etc, because what can the arbiter do if someone is doing this kind of thing in the toilets/anywhere else? Can he search the person? Even if he does find a device, can he prove that it was used if he finds it on him and the person is not using it?

I have instructed my children to stay at their board/in the playing room (as much as possible) for the duration of their games and to go to the toilet before they begin. I make sure that they eat between rounds (where possible) and take a bottle of water with them. This means that it minimises reasons for leaving the board. They do walk around the room for breaks and look at other games when it is longplay and I think that is fine.

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Thu May 09, 2013 5:01 pm

John Upham wrote:
I also would be concerned about the use of cork toilets.
LOL!

Andrew Collins
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Andrew Collins » Thu May 09, 2013 5:05 pm

I have taken to walking around quite a bit during my last couple of slow play tournaments, partly due to aching legs, and also I find more and more that I can mull over the position whilst walking around. However I don't leave the playing hall and don't walk around on my move. In fact once the game is critical I tend not to leave the board under any circumstances. I don't really see it as a problem because my opponent can always see where I am without difficulty should they ever have any concerns.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu May 09, 2013 5:08 pm

Krishna Shiatis wrote: Even if he does find a device, can he prove that it was used if he finds it on him and the person is not using it?
It doesn't have to be in use for a chess engine, just being switched on is enough. That is unless you don't interpret the instruction at the start of the game to switch mobiles off as meaning that they remain off for the duration of the game.

Phil Neatherway
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Phil Neatherway » Thu May 09, 2013 5:12 pm

I once had occasion to mention to the arbiter that my junior opponent kept disappearing to the toilet on his move. The arbiter in turn spoke to the junior's responsible adult and a perfectly reasonable explanation was given (he was very nervous). So it's important not to jump to conclusions.

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