English Chess Forum

One of the few remaining adjudication leagues, the Civil Service League, has voted to make finishing on the night the default option. Adjudication will still be available but only if both players agree. This is expected to be a transitional arrangement on the way to an eventual mandatory finish on the night in all cases.

Where the game finishes on the night, the time control will be incremental (G80 +10s) wherever suitable digital clocks are available.

James Toon wrote: Where the game finishes on the night, the time control will be incremental (G80 +10s) wherever suitable digital clocks are available.

Did you feel the need to have a rule to prevent infinite games, bearing in mind that without keeping score, there's no obvious way to enforce the fifty move rule?

Roger de Coverly wrote:

James Toon wrote: Where the game finishes on the night, the time control will be incremental (G80 +10s) wherever suitable digital clocks are available.

Did you feel the need to have a rule to prevent infinite games, bearing in mind that without keeping score, there's no obvious way to enforce the fifty move rule?

We didn't consider that. Has it ever happened in your experience?

The CSL is the not the first league to adopt an incremental (G80 +10s) time control. There may be some thinking elsewhere on this point. It hasn't been an issue in the first two years of the Central London League.

James Toon wrote: The CSL is the not the first league to adopt an incremental (G80 +10s) time control. There may be some thinking elsewhere on this point. It hasn't been an issue in the first two years of the Central London League.

The Surrey Border League have a special rule which has the effect of reinstating the possibility of a "unable to win" claim at an advanced number of moves. Draft rules for the Thames Valley league proposed an adjudication option for games of excessive length.

I'm not aware of any games of this type at ten second increments. Perhaps it's so fast that players don't bother. Exceeding long games have been seen in events like the British Championships and Hastings where the increment was thirty or sixty seconds.

Roger de Coverly wrote: Exceeding long games

Did these games involve Mr. Kipling?

Stockport league voted this week to allow an option of 80 minutes for all moves with 10 second increments from move 1. The Leicestershire league and County Championships have used this time control for the last 3 years without any problems. A 105 move game only lasts 15 minutes longer than normal, 150 moves is an extra 1/2 hour.

Sean Hewitt wrote: A 105 move game only lasts 15 minutes longer than normal, 150 moves is an extra 1/2 hour.

That's one of the basic problems. If you start between 7.30 and 7.45 and have to be out at 11.00, a extra half hour isn't available.

It's also down to the technology. If you could easily see the move counter on the digital clock, being able to make 50 move claims without keeping score wouldn't be nearly as difficult.

John Upham wrote:

Roger de Coverly wrote: Exceeding long games

Did these games involve Mr. Kipling?

That would be exceedingly long noses (sorry, different Mr Kipling, as not known by this year's University Challenge finalists).

Roger de Coverly wrote:

Sean Hewitt wrote: A 105 move game only lasts 15 minutes longer than normal, 150 moves is an extra 1/2 hour.

That's one of the basic problems. If you start between 7.30 and 7.45 and have to be out at 11.00, a extra half hour isn't available.

It's also down to the technology. If you could easily see the move counter on the digital clock, being able to make 50 move claims without keeping score wouldn't be nearly as difficult.

Both the Civil Service League and the Central London League start early (6.30pm) so it would be possible to go for a longer time control. The CSL has a very long tradition of a three-hour session. The CLL is very new and still evolving. Whether to introduce a longer time control in some cases is a live issue at the moment.

Richard Thursby wrote:

John Upham wrote:

Roger de Coverly wrote: Exceeding long games

Did these games involve Mr. Kipling?

That would be exceedingly long noses (sorry, different Mr Kipling, as not known by this year's University Challenge finalists).

The Just So story of the how the elephant got his trunk? Tsk. Students nowadays!

Gibraltar has played the morning games at all in 110 add 10 seconds per move from the first for some years. The games start at 10am. The afternoon games, on the same boards and with some of the same players, start at 3pm. There has never been any problem whatsoever since implementing that rule.
Of course the electronic clocks should have a visible push counter. But DGT is adamantly against this. Only Chronos (exceedingly expensive) and Excalibur have the option of displaying this useful information.

James Toon wrote:

Roger de Coverly wrote:

James Toon wrote: Where the game finishes on the night, the time control will be incremental (G80 +10s) wherever suitable digital clocks are available.

Did you feel the need to have a rule to prevent infinite games, bearing in mind that without keeping score, there's no obvious way to enforce the fifty move rule?

We didn't consider that. Has it ever happened in your experience?

I dislike 10 second increments for similar reasons to Roger's question. Evidently my objection is more theoretical than practical (e.g. your later comments, Sean's and Stewart's posts). Still, I'm curious as to what would happen if/when (delete as you see fit) somebody reaches KRB v KR or, say, they get KBN v K but don't know how to win it. What then?

Jonathan Bryant wrote: Evidently my objection is more theoretical than practical (e.g. your later comments, Sean's and Stewart's posts). Still, I'm curious as to what would happen if/when (delete as you see fit) somebody reaches KRB v KR or, say, they get KBN v K but don't know how to win it. What then?

The ten second increment hasn't been tested in events featuring GMs in general or Keith in particular. On the face of it, without a way to force the game to a conclusion, the player trying to deliver mate has as long as they need to figure it out or provoke a blunder.

Stewart Reuben wrote: Of course the electronic clocks should have a visible push counter. But DGT is adamantly against this.

If they are still trying to market it as a Game Timer, why do the Laws of Chess come into it?

Jonathan Bryant wrote: i dislike 10 second increments for similar reasons to Roger's question. Evidently my objection is more theoretical than practical (e.g. your later comments, Sean's and Stewart's posts). Still, I'm curious as to what would happen if/when (delete as you see fit) somebody reaches KRB v KR or, say, they get KBN v K but don't know how to win it. What then?

In the Civil Service League matches start at 6.30pm so there's plenty of scope for a gentle 400 move game before 10.30pm and many of the venues are open 24/7. It might depend on who falls asleep first, or who needs the loo most! As the Racing Cars put it "It's making no sense, but we`ll stay here till the end. Whatever". (That's the old fashioned meaning of Whatever not the modern Kevin definition!)