English Chess Forum

Bit of a random question that occurred to me as I was perusing some of the results and tables in the current season of the London Chess League (some exciting and tense finishes and hints at disputes here and there, but probably best not to dwell on specific examples). What I was wondering was whether anyone here has played in all four divisions over the years (since the time it contracted to that level), and what they think the main differences are in terms of overall playing strength? Obviously the first division is the strongest and the fourth the weakest, but is there much difference between the third and fourth divisions and third and second divisions except in terms of number of boards for the matches and number of teams (12:13:13:12 for number of teams; 12:10:10:8 for number of boards)? Also, if anyone knows anything about the recent history (last 20 years or so), that is something that I'd be interested in hearing more about, especially the period preceding where the current website archives end.

I count six divisions but could be mistaken.

See http://www.londonchess.org.uk/tables_li ... n=20122013

Just off to Specsavers for my weekly check-up.

John Upham wrote:I count six divisions but could be mistaken.

See http://www.londonchess.org.uk/tables_li ... n=20122013

Just off to Specsavers for my weekly check-up.

I had deliberately excluded the two new divisions, but shouldn't have done really. If anyone does have any details on the London League prior to the 2002-3 season, as seen here:

http://www.londonchess.org.uk/Old/2002-3/table1.htm

It would be appreciated. I was told at one point that there are details prior to that, but I'm not sure how far back or how much detail. Were league tables ever published or not? I presume not, but maybe some chess magazines did carry such news at some point.

I played for Streatham in the London League Division 1 from 1985 to 1990. This was before Wood Green and Drunken Knights came along. I don't have tables from that time but I recall Kings Head and Cavendish being very strong (probably the two strongest teams). There weren't so many titled players, but this was presumably in the pre-professional days. Division 1 was still very strong but less so than now.

The central venue was the Bishopsgate Institute near Liverpool Street. The time control was 30 moves in 90 minutes followed by adjournment (no quickplay finish as I recall). Despite the slow time control, I can only remember two of my games going to adjournment in five years.

James Toon wrote:I played for Streatham in the London League Division 1 from 1985 to 1990. This was before Wood Green and Drunken Knights came along. I don't have tables from that time but I recall Kings Head and Cavendish being very strong (probably the two strongest teams). There weren't so many titled players, but this was presumably in the pre-professional days. Division 1 was still very strong but less so than now.

The central venue was the Bishopsgate Institute near Liverpool Street. The time control was 30 moves in 90 minutes followed by adjournment (no quickplay finish as I recall). Despite the slow time control, I can only remember two of my games going to adjournment in five years.

Thanks for that. The list of past champions is here:

http://www.londonchess.org.uk/Old/champs.htm

That suggests that in the period you mention (1985-90) Wood Green were already strong enough to win, and that King's Head only started winning towards the end of that period:

1984-85 Streatham
1985-86 Wood Green
1986-87 Wood Green
1987-88 Richmond
1988-89 Kings Head
1989-90 Kings Head

Cavendish have won four times, but not in that period.

Thanks, very interesting. My strongest memories are towards the end of the period, when Kings Head were dominant. Streatham were comprehensively thumped by Kings Head in 1990, although I was fortunate enough to swindle RMcM. I don't recall Wood Green at all from those days. It must have been before Brian Smith's time.

I believe that over the period 1981/82 to 1984/85 I played in 6 of the 8 divisions of the London League, just missing out of the top two divisions.

During that period clubs such as Wood Green 2, Kings Head 2 and later Kings Head 3, Hackney, Beckenham and Bromley and Wanstead 2 played in either division 7 or 8 and so I found that in fact my results on the occasions I played in the higher divisions were better.

I played my first London League game against Dave Rumens in 1978 (Wimbledon v Hampstead). Since then I must have played over 250 games, mostly in the 1st Division.

Looking back over the opponents I played in the first few years I am surprised to see how many are still active.

Matches were played on the top floor of St Brides Institute. I can't remember the room being smoke-filled, but I think it must have been.

Between 1978-79 and 1982-83 a different team won the 1st Division each year (I was part of the Hendon team that won in 82-83). Unlike today, it was not possible to predict which team would come first (now the competitive excitement is provided for teams at the other end of the table).

John Hodgson wrote:I played my first London League game against Dave Rumens in 1978 (Wimbledon v Hampstead). Since then I must have played over 250 games, mostly in the 1st Division.

Looking back over the opponents I played in the first few years I am surprised to see how many are still active.

Matches were played on the top floor of St Brides Institute. I can't remember the room being smoke-filled, but I think it must have been.

Between 1978-79 and 1982-83 a different team won the 1st Division each year (I was part of the Hendon team that won in 82-83). Unlike today, it was not possible to predict which team would come first (now the competitive excitement is provided for teams at the other end of the table).

Hi John - thanks for sharing your memories! I remember playing for Hendon at St Brides as a teenager in the late 70's though I never made the first team.
Do you recall the names of your Hendon 1 team mates when we won the London League? (I assume Steve Berry, Dave Lynch and Kevin Bowmer were part of the team?)

Michael Bennett wrote:Do you recall the names of your Hendon 1 team mates when we won the London League? (I assume Steve Berry, Dave Lynch and Kevin Bowmer were part of the team?)

Steve Berry,Dave Lynch, and Paul Lamford all played for Hendon (we shared a house in Kenton), but at least two and possibly all three had left by 1982-83. In the year Hendon won the Championship Howard Williams led the team on several occasions. Jim Johnson, Alan Potts and Adam Raoof played too (but not necessarily in 1982-83). We also recruited a couple of foreign players but I'm not too sure of their names. One may have been IM Carlos Cuartas, though I see from ChessBase that games played in the UK are only recorded in 1979. I think Hendon probably had stronger teams in other years, but perhaps the competition was temporarily weaker in 1982.

But the team was made by the captain, Ken Davies, who sadly died relatively young.

Thanks for all the info John. I had never heard that some of those players ever played for Hendon, so it's good to be able to fill in a bit of our history.

I only heard the sad news about Ken Davies - who I believe captained all our London League teams - when I took up chess again in 2008. From what I remember he was a very enthusiastic and highly competent captain, and he was also personally responsible for encouraging me to take up chess again when I was in my mid-twenties (after an 8-year break), so I owe a lot to him.