League Champions!

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: League Champions!

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu May 23, 2013 4:41 pm

I wonder whether there would be interest in a 'zine dedicated to league chess. Possibly a download-and-print entity.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: League Champions!

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu May 23, 2013 4:56 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:I wonder whether there would be interest in a 'zine dedicated to league chess. Possibly a download-and-print entity.
Quite possibly. Wasn't there a UK magazine that tried to bring together some reports from weekend congresses? I can't remember the name of it right now, or how long it lasted.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: League Champions!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu May 23, 2013 5:31 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Quite possibly. Wasn't there a UK magazine that tried to bring together some reports from weekend congresses? I can't remember the name of it right now, or how long it lasted.
Chess Circuit edited and produced by Adam Raoof. As far as I recall, it merged with the BCM in the mid 1990s.

Here's a sample issue

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en& ... MOF7YPlbtY

Ian Thompson
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Re: League Champions!

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu May 23, 2013 7:57 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Quite possibly. Wasn't there a UK magazine that tried to bring together some reports from weekend congresses? I can't remember the name of it right now, or how long it lasted.
Chess Circuit edited and produced by Adam Raoof. As far as I recall, it merged with the BCM in the mid 1990s.
I think Chris is more likely to be thinking of "Weekend Chess", which is a much more recent magazine.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: League Champions!

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu May 23, 2013 8:01 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Quite possibly. Wasn't there a UK magazine that tried to bring together some reports from weekend congresses? I can't remember the name of it right now, or how long it lasted.
Chess Circuit edited and produced by Adam Raoof. As far as I recall, it merged with the BCM in the mid 1990s.
I think Chris is more likely to be thinking of "Weekend Chess", which is a much more recent magazine.
Yes. According to Di Felice, started in 2000:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0zpt ... C&pg=PA300

Chess Circuit in 1993:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0zpt ... C&pg=PA297

Found this post here:

http://www.chessbanter.com/rec-games-ch ... azine.html

Says it was edited by a Chris Rice, who might be the Chris Rice that posts here?

Mick Norris says something nice on it here:

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... =30#p48581

PeterFarr
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Re: League Champions!

Post by PeterFarr » Thu May 23, 2013 9:19 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote::)

In that case can I be an honourary member?
(or if you want me too I'll sub up, anything to break that record.)
Hi Geoff,

Actual membership is a little vague - we just pay into the bar kitty out of which league fees mysteriously get paid somehow. Honorary membership is a good idea that could probably be achieved via a vote at the AGM; that is if we ever bothered to have one.


Btw we play at an old coaching Inn, the Jolly Tanners at Staplefield; I believe the Prince Regent used to stop for lunch on his way down to the Royal Pavilion. Some of my more senior colleagues taught him the Kings Gambit I believe.

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Re: League Champions!

Post by Geoff Chandler » Fri May 24, 2013 2:15 am

It was Weekend Chess I have all the copies somewhere.
I noted up a couple of games for them (usually fee - free mag).

It was very well put together, looks very professional.
Think it folded due to lack of advertising, you need the adverting when running a mag.

Hi Peter,

The Jolly Tanners at Staplefield.
Handcross Rd Staplefield,
Haywards Heath,
West Sussex RH17 6EF

I'll send down £1.00 for the kitty.

And if I'm ever in the vicinity I'll pop in for an argument.

Actually spent a couple of nights in the 60's at Haywards Heath
with a lad and his family called Knight.

Mick Norris
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Re: League Champions!

Post by Mick Norris » Fri May 24, 2013 9:24 am

Mick Norris wrote:Manchester League A division champions, 3Cs 1 with 3Cs 2 finishing third

Reyner final is 3Cs 1 v 3Cs 2
Urmston 1 (with Adam Ashton on board 1) have done the double by winning the Wahltuch Trophy last night as well as B division, winning all 13 matches played including beating Marple who are also promoted to A division

Ashton won the Hartley Trophy and 3Cs 6 the Alfred Milner Trophy

C division was won by 3Cs 3 with Bolton 3 also eligible for promotion

D division (5 boards) was won by 3Cs 5 - Oldham 2 could have shared the title with a win in their last match, but a loss saw them finish second bottom in the most competitive of the divisions

E division (5 boards graded under 126) was won by Heywood 3 with 3 teams joint second
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

MartinCarpenter
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Re: League Champions!

Post by MartinCarpenter » Fri May 24, 2013 10:07 am

That really does emphasise how amazing 3C's is - not only have they managed to win most of the divisions with purely home grown players, they've done it at the same time as 'loaning' two of their very strongest players to Urmston/Marple.

Mick Norris
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Re: League Champions!

Post by Mick Norris » Fri May 24, 2013 11:55 am

MartinCarpenter wrote:That really does emphasise how amazing 3C's is - not only have they managed to win most of the divisions with purely home grown players, they've done it at the same time as 'loaning' two of their very strongest players to Urmston/Marple.
Which is why A division will be interesting next season - 3Cs, Stockport, Bolton and Heywood being joined by Marple and Urmston as possible winners - Great Lever needed Surtees this year (gained from Bolton) to help them finish 6th
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: League Champions!

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri May 24, 2013 12:14 pm

Hearing all about the various champions of various leagues is interesting. Not sure which leagues are missing from the tally (I don't think any of the Bristol or West Country ones have been mentioned - Clifton won the first division of the Bristol and District Chess League). A round-up of all the league champions across the whole of English chess wouldn't be impossible, but could take a while to compile. What I'm wondering is how the strength of teams vary, and how the leagues vary in composition. The latter was covered recently (i.e. this season) here:

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5216

The last snapshot at the Chingland site seems to have been the 2009/10 season:

http://mjh.orpheusweb.co.uk/chingland/snap10.htm

Would a competition between the various league champions that wanted to participate in such a competition work? (In essence similar to the National Clubs competition). Or would that be a non-starter due to the geographical distances, the differences in composition and size, and (in some cases) the overlaps?

Graham Borrowdale

Re: League Champions!

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Fri May 24, 2013 12:35 pm

I am sure the leagues around the country vary in strength, but I think it is probable that they all attract pretty strong players at the top.
The strength of the London League is well documented, Surrey and Thames Valley Leagues were always very strong in Div 1 when I played (probably stronger now I don't), with several teams each fielding several 200+ players, often higher. Beds League, where I play now, is weaker, but still representative of players living/working/playing in the county. In other words, I think it fair to say that evening league still looks like the mainstay of chess in this country, despite all of the attention given to 4NCL and some high profile congresses, and grumblings about fast time controls.
As for magazine coverage, BCM now seems to be reporting brief results of leagues, and also county matches are getting a look in, but I agree that more detailed reports would be of interest. I am sure James P reads this.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: League Champions!

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri May 24, 2013 12:40 pm

I'd never really looked properly at the Herts League before, nor the Middlesex League, and I was surprised at how strong the teams were in the top divisions. The Herts League (where the title seems not to have been decided yet) can be seen here:

http://www.e2-e4.co.uk/chess-results/results.htm

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Re: League Champions!

Post by MartinCarpenter » Fri May 24, 2013 1:18 pm

The 4NCL does I think nicely replace the need for any sort of inter legaue champion, championship :)

Easy to do now though. The Yorkshire league:

I have a silly amount of data here.... Division 1 (8 boards, 11 matches). Rounded average strength per board 200, 185, 180, 175, 170, 165, 160, 150. Average player grade = 172. Most teams 170-175 average. Average strength needed to win ~185-190. Strongest team average strength over last season 192.

Strongest match - York A vs Sheffield A. (http://www.chessnuts.org.uk/ny5/match.p ... =334299137)

Very nearly an average strength/board of 200 there. That match has been escalating somewhat recently with Jean Luc Weller coming through and James Adair at York University leading to Sheffield rounding up a few more players to compensate. I suspect that it'll be a little bit weaker next season.

Less for the rest of Yorkshire but easy to round up via Chessnuts.
The Sheffield league (http://www.chessnuts.org.uk/ny5/league. ... ionid=1091): 9 teams in div 1, double round robin. 8 board/match.

The strongest teams there seem to be 170-175 over a season and 180(+) when organised - ie http://www.chessnuts.org.uk/ny5/match.p ... =332529672. ~160 for mid table.

Leeds(http://www.chessnuts.org.uk/ny5/league. ... ionid=1071): 9 teams, Double Round Robin. 5 boards/match. Strength of winning team ~180. Mid table ~160.

Bradford (http://www.chessnuts.org.uk/ny5/league. ... ionid=1061): 8 teams, DRR, 6 boards/match. Winning team ~170 average. Mid table similar.

York(http://www.chessnuts.org.uk/ny5/league. ... ionid=1081) : 8 teams, DRR, 6 boards/match. Winning team ~175 average. Low mid table ~150.

The Sheffield league is genuinely very impressive indeed. Its one big reason they struggle to get people playing in the other things.

Manchester League (http://www.manchesterchess.org.uk/): 10 teams, single round robin. Winning team typically ~180-185/board for most matches, although obviously capable of much more as per: http://www.manchesterchess.org.uk/match ... n=20122013 (Whatever did Chorlton 2 do to deserve that?!)

Mid table ~170 I guess, with low mid table ~160-165.

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Re: League Champions!

Post by Mick Norris » Fri May 24, 2013 1:24 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:Manchester League (http://www.manchesterchess.org.uk/): 10 teams, single round robin. Winning team typically ~180-185/board for most matches, although obviously capable of much more as per: http://www.manchesterchess.org.uk/match ... n=20122013 (Whatever did Chorlton 2 do to deserve that?!)
If you want to play in a cup semi or final, you have to have played at least twice previously for the team, so 3Cs were preparing for their semi v Marple and Chorlton 2 just happened to be the wrong fixture at the wrong time
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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