Child Genius - the representation of chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:24 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:My review on the ECF website deliberately did not give Josh's name.
Just flicking casually, I can't find this.

(And yes everyone, I do see the section on membership!!)

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JustinHorton
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:41 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:All 8 year old chessplayers should have the ambition to be a GM.
When I was eight I am not sure I knew what a grandmaster atually was. I am not convinced that this was a great obstacle to my development.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:39 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Joey Stewart wrote: ... I would be happy enough just to be a fide master.
The joy wears off quite quickly :|
I suppose that carrying a title of "master" and still feeling totally outclassed by the upper levels of mastery can be a bit disheartening at times, but at least you get good respect from lower graded players.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:01 pm

Well even the very top level humans are now badly outclassed by computers :) And even a (relatively) weak club player is ahead of nearly all of the population.....

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Geoff Chandler » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:56 pm

Hi Joey.

"....but at least you get good respect from lower graded players."

No, they will look upon you as a scalpto be taken and anyway most lower graded players
won't know what FM means. The will think it stands for FeMale and when you turn up
they will just assume they are playing an ugly woman. :wink:

-----------------

"Is this type of coverage good for chess and for children in general?"

Any publicity is good for Chess. (even bad publicity!)

And the kid wants to play chess so is not being pushed by his parents.

There are lot of kids being named on the telly these days, I guess it
all comes down to the individual, the enviorment and the school he goes to.
School bullies might have a few cutting remarks when they find out there is a 'star' in their midst.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:26 pm

Those punks! I don't like seeing low rated players attempting to steal scalps off masters, I always root against the underdog since they have nothing to lose anyway so deserve to be punished for being in such a privileged position.

I think a chess prodigy at school should be ok, if people start to mock him he can threaten a thrashing on the chessboard and they should go pretty quiet then....
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:49 pm

Stuart Conquest told me that, when he won the World Cadet (U17) Chess Championship, boys at school would come up to him and ask for his autograph. When he obliged, they would then tear up the piece of paper.
Remember Tom Daly who left his school because of bullying?
All successful youngsters can face problems when growing up. That is one reason why so many eschew the state educational system.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:51 pm

I don't think it is the fault of the school - most children are naturally selfish, with no regard for anyone elses feelings but their own, and will pick on anyone different then themselves if it amuses them to do so.
If they manage to grow out of it they become adults...unfortunately there are more and more adults these days who maintain such negative qualities.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

David Robertson
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by David Robertson » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:15 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:All successful youngsters can face problems when growing up. That is one reason why so many eschew the state educational system.
Can this horseshit be allowed to pass? Is Stewart Reuben a parent? Do we have to take his prejudicial, opinionated nonsense seriously? Is he a fit person to promote the affairs of English chess, given such a comment?

Answer = No

In all cases

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:17 pm

What I like about David Robertson is his ability to reason in such a measured manner.

PeterFarr
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by PeterFarr » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:05 am

93% of children in England are educated in the State sector. It seems that the % educated in the fee-paying sector rose from 6.5% in 1999 to 7.2% in 2009, however this includes a big increase in pupils from overseas (e.g. wealthy French, Russians, in London). It would be very difficult to conclude that a significant number of parents eschew the State sector for the reasons of managing the unusually talented (though there must be some); family tradition, social class and a more general desire for a "better" education would I guess explain most people's reasons for going private.

I tend to agree with Joey Stewart that children are children anywhere - is bullying really worse in State rather than Private schools?

As to the media presentation of "genius" children, there's seems an ingrained tendency to treat unusual ability as something like a circus side-show. There is no point in expecting any kind of balanced view - anyway Peter Williams' comments above are very interesting about that.

Amnon Cohen
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Amnon Cohen » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:35 am

This has been provoked a discussion on http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_ ... ild-Genius.

One mum wrote
We were once asked to appear on a programme similar to this - think it was C4, too - with my DS.
We declined, but someone we knew did go through with it and ended up distraught and betrayed at the horrible way they were portrayed, thanks to clever editing.

C4 tried to persuade us that it was intended as a documentary, showing the difficulties that very bright children and their families can face. What was finally aired was a "look at the dysfunctional weirdos!" Freak Show.

Andrew Martin
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Andrew Martin » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:52 am

These programmes tell you more about the parents than they do about the kids, who don't really have a choice whether they appear or not.

PeterFarr
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by PeterFarr » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:08 am

Perhaps so; although the 'pushy middle-class parent' is also a stereotype which programme makers are always keen to portray. It's a pity that a more complex and balanced view is never given air time - it's always lowest common denominator stuff.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:41 am

I thought the child genius producers did a good job. I have met the quizmaster at various events and he is very sensible and really excellent with the kids. I thought a lot of the parents and kids actually came across rather well. Of course one or two of the parents appeared to be somewhat obsessive, but I didn't get the feeling that creative editting was required to produce that impression.

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