Child Genius - the representation of chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
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Peter D Williams
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Peter D Williams » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:07 pm

Andrew Martin wrote:These programmes tell you more about the parents than they do about the kids, who don't really have a choice whether they appear or not.
Where is the evidence that the children do not have a choice whether they appear or not?

When you took part in one of the child genius films did you check with all of the children at Yateley Manor school that their wanted to take part as i remember those children being filmed from the school?

You where very willing to take part in the film and made some very bizarre statements about Peter why was that?
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

IanDavis
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by IanDavis » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:22 pm

Do I sense a grudge here? ^,^

Of course, these days the documentaries are more sensationalist. Gone are the days when tedium was rightly appreciated.

Arshad Ali
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Arshad Ali » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:35 pm

IanDavis wrote:Of course, these days the documentaries are more sensationalist. Gone are the days when tedium was rightly appreciated.
Is this style yet another cultural import from the US of A?

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:19 pm

I hope we are still watching this series. All the kids come over well, and although the same might not be true of all the parents, I agree with Matt that I have little impression that anyone is being deliberately misportrayed.

The whole Selby family were fantastic, with my favourite bit being Oscar saying that his parents each went to Oxford. In that moment he was, I guess, like the vast majority of the population who see little material difference between Oxford and Cambridge.

We also saw Oscar playing bridge with some old dears at his local club. I suppose it is my chess playing background which made me think that he was probably a lot stronger than them. A shame we didn't see him play a hand against Stewart!

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:31 pm

You have to watch old dears in bridge :) Mostly they're are you assume but the ones who've been playing seriously all that time.....

Boris Schapiro was in the team which won the main UK knockout teams competition at the age of 88! Makes an amusing counterpoint to child prodigies :)
(Bridge players in general both get properly stronger at older ages and retain their strength for much longer than in chess.).

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:41 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:The whole Selby family were fantastic, with my favourite bit being Oscar saying that his parents each went to Oxford. In that moment he was, I guess, like the vast majority of the population who see little material difference between Oxford and Cambridge.
Ah, I've just realised who Oscar is! Has it really been that many years since Natasha played for Cambridge University 4NCL? Seems like it was 2005-6:

http://www.4ncl.co.uk/pre2010/0506_div2results_rd6.htm

Anyway, the very small point to mentioning that was that I have a vague memory of Oscar being at a restaurant meal one weekend. Not sure how old he was then. Time doesn't stand still, does it... :?

EDIT: On thinking on this further, my memory may be faulty. It is possible that Oscar was only mentioned in passing. Maybe something about taking a GCSE maths exam.
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Peter D Williams » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:41 pm

IanDavis wrote:Do I sense a grudge here? ^,^

Of course, these days the documentaries are more sensationalist. Gone are the days when tedium was rightly appreciated.
Afternoon All :D

No we all including Peter just want the answers from Martin about his bizarre views about Peter? One of the reason Peter does not play chess now is because of what Martin said about him in the film.
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Angus McDonald
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Angus McDonald » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:40 pm

Chess is a logical game.

I guess it's logical to run a Chess Academy for other people's children but disapprove of parents getting involved in their own childrens development.? I know we are talking about measures but the idea that the state or others know best is surely being discredited by more and
more shocking revelations about those who have been trusted with other people's children. It's truly a time to strengthen families and encourage parents to take an interest in their childrens education etc.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Peter D Williams » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:46 pm

Angus McDonald wrote:Chess is a logical game.

I guess it's logical to run a Chess Academy for other people's children but disapprove of parents getting involved in their own childrens development.? I know we are talking about measures but the idea that the state or others know best is surely being discredited by more and
more shocking revelations about those who have been trusted with other people's children. It's truly a time to strengthen families and encourage parents to take an interest in their childrens education etc.

Agree with every word you just wrote.
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Angus McDonald
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Angus McDonald » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:05 pm

Peter,

If you agree with me then I know I must be right! :-) Where Peter junior got to with his Chess is a great credit to you both. Sorry to hear he's not playing at the moment but the foundation he has in the game will ensure he's a champion player when he returns to it.

PeterFarr
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by PeterFarr » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:27 pm

Angus McDonald wrote: more and more shocking revelations about those who have been trusted with other people's children.
I don't understand this bit. I rather suspect in reality its safer now than its ever been to be a child - people often complain about excessive bureaucracy around working with children if anything.

Agree with your other points.

Andrew Martin
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Andrew Martin » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:38 pm

Perhaps Mr Williams would like to quote word for word the bizarre statements he says that I have made about his son ,from the transcript of the programme.

Will he include the part of the interview where I said Peter was a very nice lad ( cut out of the final programme) ?

Maybe he will also include the part of the interview where I defended the right of all parents to educate their children as they see fit ( cut out of the final programme) .

If he is incapable of believing this ,get hold of the full footage, which was obviously cut to fit a certain cloth.

Will he also mention that I offered,via Alec Aslett , to meet the entire Williams family face to face shortly after the programme and that this offer was flatly turned down?

Obviously , I regret the fact that Peter is not playing at the moment. It is quite ridiculous to suppose that I would not. Lets hope he comes back.

So if Mr Williams has any further problems, the offer is still there to meet face to face. Much better to clear the air like that than endless grumbling on an internet chess forum.

Angus McDonald
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Angus McDonald » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:34 pm

On the basis of what Andrew Martin has said here I must apologise to him for my previous comments about logic.

He states he has said he said Peter was (past tense because the interview happened years ago) a very nice lad. (still is:-))

He also states that he said it was the right of parents to educate their children as they see fit and that this was cut out of the programme. In which case Andrew Martin has covered the main points more than adequately in my opinion.

In which case I feel it is the makers of this programme who have stirred up trouble and it's just co-incidence that
some of the fall out has fallen on some very able chess enthusiasts. Organisers, Parents and a very talented junior chess player.

Peter, You are both parents and at this stage I wish you would accept Andrew's offer to talk about the issue. I think it would do you good to move on and perhaps talk about improving things in Junior Chess together. Peter is reaching an age where he could be a great asset as a coach to up and coming juniors himself. Hopefully he could have one last go at The World Youth next year? I must state also that you Peter senior are a fantastic coach and I think you could take any talented child through to be a chess star also.

Chess is too good a game and you are all way to talented not to be able to work together with others for the benefit of Junior Chess in England.

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:36 pm

I obviously don't know for sure what Andrew said but I was interviewed by the same camera crew. Nothing I said appeared in the final footage. I gave similar answers to those Andrew says he gave. I therefore have no reason to doubt what Andrew says above.

I too believe that there was a certain agenda being followed by the film makers. Although Peter had a solid British Championship he had no spectacular result which deprived them of one story line so they then went for another, less glowing one.

If memory serves there was more footage of his tortoises than there was of him playing at Canterbury, despite the many hours of filming done there.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Peter D Williams » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:17 pm

Andrew Martin wrote:Perhaps Mr Williams would like to quote word for word the bizarre statements he says that I have made about his son ,from the transcript of the programme.

Will he include the part of the interview where I said Peter was a very nice lad ( cut out of the final programme) ?

Maybe he will also include the part of the interview where I defended the right of all parents to educate their children as they see fit ( cut out of the final programme) .

If he is incapable of believing this ,get hold of the full footage, which was obviously cut to fit a certain cloth.

Will he also mention that I offered,via Alec Aslett , to meet the entire Williams family face to face shortly after the programme and that this offer was flatly turned down?

Obviously , I regret the fact that Peter is not playing at the moment. It is quite ridiculous to suppose that I would not. Lets hope he comes back.

So if Mr Williams has any further problems, the offer is still there to meet face to face. Much better to clear the air like that than endless grumbling on an internet chess forum.
Response from Peter & Carol Williams

The following is the main comments made by Mr Martin which were used in the film

“The most talented children the gifted ones are always very fragile and they are quite vulnerable so it is crucially important at that point to be sympathetic and absolutely the right thing to do is to treat them as normally as possible and somehow create a framework for them under which they can operate and I am convinced that this can be done within the education system”

Mr Martin made no attempt to consult with us the parents as to whether we were happy for him to comment directly about Peter in his interview and his comments were a direct criticism of our decision. Being involved in the education system we would have thought it blatantly obvious to him the perils of commenting on children without consulting their parents and have realised the possible ramifications. There was an implication in Mr Martin's interview that Peter amongst others were vulnerable and implied that gifted children should be at school and he appeared to have little or no knowledge about home education.

The offer of a meeting only happened after we made a complaint to Yateley Manor School about Mr Martins' comments.

If Mr Martin is as unhappy about the portrayal as we are then we assume that he has made a formal complaint to Channel 4 – it would be interesting to see their response perhaps this would be a way of building bridges.

Why Mr Martin thinks we have a full uncut version of the film is beyond us
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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