Child Genius - the representation of chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:17 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote: We also saw Oscar playing bridge with some old dears at his local club. I suppose it is my chess playing background which made me think that he was probably a lot stronger than them.
The card memory test wasn't strictly speaking an intelligence test, but it did show up the criticism of such tests that they can contain cultural bias. Chess players tend to remember positions in chunks and similarly Oscar's remembering of the cards perhaps owed quite a bit to his recognition of card patterns from his Bridge expertise. He speeded up when he hit a logical run, so rather than remembering nine of hearts, eight of hearts, seven of hearts, it was just nine of hearts starting a run of three. Once down to the last few cards, the technique of card counting could have come into play.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:21 am

Peter D Williams wrote: ...
The offer of a meeting only happened after we made a complaint to Yateley Manor School about Mr Martins' comments.
Why didn't you - indeed, why don't you - just accept the offer, now that it has been made, and stop bothering the rest of us?

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:22 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Jonathan Rogers wrote: We also saw Oscar playing bridge with some old dears at his local club. I suppose it is my chess playing background which made me think that he was probably a lot stronger than them.
The card memory test wasn't strictly speaking an intelligence test, but it did show up the criticism of such tests that they can contain cultural bias. Chess players tend to remember positions in chunks and similarly Oscar's remembering of the cards perhaps owed quite a bit to his recognition of card patterns from his Bridge expertise. He speeded up when he hit a logical run, so rather than remembering nine of hearts, eight of hearts, seven of hearts, it was just nine of hearts starting a run of three. Once down to the last few cards, the technique of card counting could have come into play.
I am sure that is all correct. But I'd be curious to know how many strong and expereinced bridge players could remember a whole pack in exact order.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Peter D Williams » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:39 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Why didn't you - indeed, why don't you - just accept the offer, now that it has been made, and stop bothering the rest of us?
I ask polite questions to who ever i want on here and i do not need your permission to do so :wink:

As for the meeting let see if Mr Martin has made a complaint to channel 4 about what he claims he said but was not included in the film if he does we are more than willing to meet him.

I only post up until 4.00 pm on a Friday and not on a Saturday or Sunday as these days should be post free to allow one time to spend with family/friends and Wilson the West Highland terrier :D :D

One bit of good news is that the broad beans are growing well
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Angus McDonald
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Angus McDonald » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:17 pm

Hypothetically speaking of course!

I believe in forgiveness. I only forgive though when someone stops the wrong they are doing.

In that case the wrong doer has realised their mistake.

Without forgiveness in life there is little future for all of us. Troubles just get bigger and conflict never ends.

When you have won the argument and, however proud the wrong doer is, they have openly recognised their mistake and openly stated that they accept the point you have been making then for me it is enough to forgive and move on. (Granted that is easy for me to say)

In such a situation everyone benefits. The point has been made, the argument won and the grudge can heal and the possibility for harmony and future benefit exists.

It takes a courageous person to stand their ground and it takes a courageous person to forgive.
Last edited by Angus McDonald on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:17 pm

You yourself accept that, on that occasion all those years ago, Channel 4 cut and pasted as they pleased to suit their story. So why on earth do you seem to doubt AM when he says that it happened to him too, and why do you require him to make a ridiculus complaint now, several years later, as a precondition for a meeting? It seems to me that you have no real interest in a meeting with him at all.

(This was addressed to Mr Williams, not to Mr McDonald, whose post I cannot begin to understand)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:22 pm

"It's truly a time to strengthen families and encourage parents to take an interest in their childrens education etc."

I agree 100 %. Unfortunately, parental input is frequently limited to "how dare you punish my child," or "my child deserves better treatment than anyone else."

Some obnoxious woman shrieked at me for ages as I had given her daughter a bye, when the unfortunate child had reached a score of 0/2 and was in sole last place. I had even arranged a filler to play her, but this was not good enough as the filler was "too weak". I remained polite and diplomatic, though I do wish I hadn't bothered. The daughter was ok, so I won't name the parent.

Obviously, I don't have a problem with parents expressing legitimate concerns over poor treatment, or asking questions.

The trouble with TV (like the internet) is that it's there for ever, so if you look an idiot (or are made to look an idiot), it can come back to haunt you.

Angus McDonald
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Angus McDonald » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:31 pm

In Education in general I think there is not enough emphasis on self reliance.

As a country we don't have enough good parents! Nobody teaches you how to be a parent! It either comes naturally or it doesn't. Some are fortunate enough to be born with good parents and they have some role models to follow. In that case the education has taken place within the family.
When the state gets too involved and doesn't set the right influence or indeed goals then they actually get between parents and children. If the State e.g was prepared to praise good parenting and recognised good parenting and reward good parenting then others would see the value in it. Sometimes I get the feeling that this beast we call the State/Government is quite happy when families fail because it gives them more purpose and work to do!?
Parents start to feel well the state is there ready to look after my children from 8am to 6pm and will pay for child care etc and gradually families just drift apart knowing that their children are being looked after by others. It's part of the cause of break up of families in my opinion. So yes! There is lots of bad parenting out there also.

Angus French
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Angus French » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:01 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:The card memory test wasn't strictly speaking an intelligence test...
I beg to differ. There are strategies/techniques for memorising the order of cards in a shuffled pack and such like. Doesn't the ability to deploy these strategies/techniques show intelligence?
Maybe Hugo had has own strategy - could it be be that he knew he could only memorise so many cards and therefore decided to disrupt the group to throw off some of his competitors?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:15 pm

Angus French wrote: I beg to differ. There are strategies/techniques for memorising the order of cards in a shuffled pack and such like. Doesn't the ability to deploy these strategies/techniques show intelligence?
Perhaps I should have said IQ test. The point being that familiarity with playing cards and the use of them in games of skill and chance was an advantage. But the competition demonstrates "teaching to the test", so mastering unfamiliar disciplines was also being tested.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Peter D Williams » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:24 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:You yourself accept that, on that occasion all those years ago, Channel 4 cut and pasted as they pleased to suit their story. So why on earth do you seem to doubt AM when he says that it happened to him too, and why do you require him to make a ridiculus complaint now, several years later, as a precondition for a meeting? It seems to me that you have no real interest in a meeting with him at all.

(This was addressed to Mr Williams, not to Mr McDonald, whose post I cannot begin to understand)

We did make a complaint to the TV film company unlike Mr Martin I wonder why he never made a complaint do you know?

Its not a ridiculous complaint if as Mr martin says he said all these wonderful things about Peter then i would have thought you would have said something to the TV company about why that was not in the film?

Meeting are only of any use if one is going to get something out of it?

These posts by the way are with the full agreement of Carol Williams my wife and Peter Junior.

Do you play chess?

Angus Talks a lot of sense maybe that is why you can not understand him? :wink:

4 pm is my cut off time on here :D
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Peter D Williams » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:26 pm

Angus McDonald wrote:In Education in general I think there is not enough emphasis on self reliance.

As a country we don't have enough good parents! Nobody teaches you how to be a parent! It either comes naturally or it doesn't. Some are fortunate enough to be born with good parents and they have some role models to follow. In that case the education has taken place within the family.
When the state gets too involved and doesn't set the right influence or indeed goals then they actually get between parents and children. If the State e.g was prepared to praise good parenting and recognised good parenting and reward good parenting then others would see the value in it. Sometimes I get the feeling that this beast we call the State/Government is quite happy when families fail because it gives them more purpose and work to do!?
Parents start to feel well the state is there ready to look after my children from 8am to 6pm and will pay for child care etc and gradually families just drift apart knowing that their children are being looked after by others. It's part of the cause of break up of families in my opinion. So yes! There is lots of bad parenting out there also.

Well said Angus Makes you wonder if some in the chess world are like the state :wink:
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:47 pm

Peter Williams asks of Jonathan Rogers
Peter D Williams wrote:Do you play chess?
LOL

Angus McDonald
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Angus McDonald » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:53 pm

Once you've seen the light Peter there is no way back. I don't though see Chess as any different to any other pastime/sport/game whichever you prefer. It's all about personalities, posturing and power with thankfully amongst them, some really genuine souls, giving selflessly who make it all worthwhile and very enjoyable at times. These people are the lifeblood of our country. They don't say much but they know who they are.

Families who have decided to Home School have been brow beaten by lots of people over the decades who should have known better.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Child Genius - the representation of chess

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:47 pm

If Mr Williams does not want to talk or meet with AM, and prefers just to continue to snipe at him on this forum for the next six years as well, then it would be a good idea to suspend his account on the next occasion. That is simply not what this forum is for at all. And then he can spend even more time in his %%$$£ garden and at his dining table.

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