Fischer Number

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:10 am

Ian Thompson wrote: Add on 2 for Fischer numbers, and then apply the above, so older players are unlikely to have a Fischer number greater than 7 or 8.
All then known Fischer games were collected in book form back in the 1970s. Amongst them was a game almost at rapid play time limits where Sherwin is recorded as beating Fischer. Sherwin played many Congress, County, League and 4NCL games after he retired to the UK, so if the game counts, it gives low Fischer numbers for a number of British players. Otherwise it's rare to find players that even played Fischer.

Richard Bates
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:47 am

It's too easy as it is. Tighten the rules - make it that it only counts if you have beaten someone who has (previously) beaten the earlier person in the chain. Beating somebody who would later go on to beat Kasparov, for example shouldn't count. Even better, start the chain from when Kasparov became World Champion - just to rule out routes involving the brief period when Kasparov wasn't very good ;) (Would make it rather difficult for Fischer though...)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:38 pm

"It's too easy as it is. Tighten the rules - make it that it only counts if you have beaten someone who has (previously) beaten the earlier person in the chain. Beating somebody who would later go on to beat Kasparov, for example shouldn't count."

I partially agree, I'm not sure I worry too much about when people in the chain won. I would suggest only including people you have beaten in proper games. I have simul wins against Michael Adams, Harry Golombek and Leonard Barden, and blitz/rapid wins against various GMs, and even wins against GMs at postal. But I think only "classical" chess should count.

I did lose to T Van Scheltinga once, which would give me an Alekhine number of 2 under the other rules.

John Moore
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by John Moore » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:51 pm

I agree. I stopped playing in simuls some years ago although I recall winning a few - Adorjan for one and Leonard too at Southend about 40 years ago. It should be winning a standard play game against someone else who has beaten someone earlier in the list.

In case this doesn't make sense - my score remains F3 - beating John Cooper who beat Najdorf who of course beat Fischer. I still struggle to make the pieces go in the right direction, though.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:54 pm

We know that in the movie business they have an equivalent game; Kevin Bacon contact. He even makes money in British TV ads from it.
But do they in other sports? e.g. A Laver, McEnroe, Djokovic or Murray number in tennis.
Football wouln't work quite the same way. Thus a Manchester United number. The team changes too much over the years.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:00 pm

Academia has a similar concept, that of the Erdos number - if you've co-published a paper with Paul Erdos, you have an Erdos number of 1, and so on.

Some people have Erdos-Bacon numbers.

David Williams
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by David Williams » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:21 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:I'd be surprised if there's any active English player over about, say, 40, who has a Kasparov number greater than 5 or 6. Adams and Short have both beaten Kasparov, so are 1s. There must be lots of people who beat them when they were young players who will be 2s, and you're already including average club players who will have lost to lots of other average players.

Add on 2 for Fischer numbers, and then apply the above, so older players are unlikely to have a Fischer number greater than 7 or 8.
Do you have to add on 2? Adams and Short are surely Fischer 2s through Korchnoi. Indeed Korchnoi lost so many games I imagine there will be many, many Korchnoi 4s, and therefore Fischer 5s.

Edit. I've just re-read the start of this thread, which uncovers may routes to Fischer numbers a lot lower than 7 or 8.
Last edited by David Williams on Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:23 pm

I'm a Fischer 3 through Korchnoi and Simon Williams. That should create Fischer 4s and 5s all over Britain.

David Williams
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by David Williams » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:28 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:Football wouln't work quite the same way. Thus a Manchester United number. The team changes too much over the years.
But you could have Stanley Matthews numbers!

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:29 pm

One of the sites I post on had Craig Boardman numbers, in honour of a now long-departed poster who was obsessed with said footballer.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:15 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:I'm a Fischer 3 through Korchnoi and Simon Williams. That should create Fischer 4s and 5s all over Britain.
... and anyone who hasn't beaten you might be able to use me instead to get their Fischer 4 or 5, as I've beaten at least 5 players who've beaten Korchnoi.

PS. ... and two of them even satisfy the Bates chronological order test as well.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:50 pm

As a minor diversion I have a Bacon number of 3...

I was on Countdown (2002) with Richard Whiteley who was in Ant and Dec's Saturday Takeaway (2002) with Justin Timberlake who was in 17th Annual Screen Actors Guild Awards (2011) with Kevin Bacon

or

I was on Countdown (2002) with Barry Cryer who was in Run for your wife (2012) with Donald Sinden who was in Balto (1995) with Kevin Bacon.

There's a 3 via Carol Vorderman as well...

If you want hours of harmless entertainment, go to https://oracleofbacon.org/

Ian Kingston
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by Ian Kingston » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:20 pm

I just checked the obvious one: Bobby Fischer has a Bacon Number of 2 (via 'Searching for Bobby Fischer' > Laura Linney > 'Mystic River').

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:43 pm

But what about my Staunton chess adminstrators number? Chess play would be boring. My likely route would be via Bob Wade, Harry Golombek, George Koltanowski or Dr Max Euwe. But how to proceed from there? I didn't meet Herbert Dobell, but he would be a good route via Hastings or the BCF.

You have heard of the 'Theory of Six Degrees of Separation'? I think it is much less than that in the UK. But we just don't know the connection. I was on a flight from Gibraltar explaining my theory. It turned out the man on my right knew the then leading GIb chessplayer. Hardly surprising in such a small place. The young man on my left still wasn't convinced until the following day. I met him oming out of the development in which I live, just as I was going in.

But what is your number for the Queen? I have met Prince Phillip, but only shaking hands. What would the number be if I really wanted to communicate with her privately? Probably three via a politician.

My Kevin Bacon number must also be 3 via Carol Vorderman, provided having dinner with her counts.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Fischer Number

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:56 pm

I once met Princess Diana as a child. Does that count? :D

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