Fischer Number

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Post Reply
David Williams
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:37 pm

Re: Fischer Number

Post by David Williams » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:37 pm

I appreciate it's only a bit of fun, but it does have rules. Do all casual games count, or only ones that establish the MN1's? It seems that way, except for "On April 28, 1938, 8-year-old Melvin Chernev (Irving's son), played a game against Emanuel Lasker (MN2) when the great man visited the Chernevs' home." in one of the links above. If that sort of thing counts I think it rather reduces the fun, because it's all rather unverifiable. In any case, I suspect that once you get to MN4 or MN5 most people will have several routes, and it's much more satisfying to have it via wins in proper games.

User avatar
John Saunders
Posts: 1373
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:10 pm
Location: Kingston-upon-Thames
Contact:

Re: Fischer Number

Post by John Saunders » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:06 pm

Simon Brown wrote:Also ARB Thomas? He was active when I was at Exeter University in the early 1980s and he must have been pushing 80 then. I recall him telling me he played at Hastings before WW2.
Yes, ARB Thomas was definitely a '3', as was Frank Parr, a prolific player whom lots of us will have played, right up until the early 2000s. My earlier list of '3's was not meant to be definitive; I left out lesser-known names. Anyone who played competitive chess in open events in England in the 1980s and 1990s must have a strong chance of a '4' status.
Personal Twitter @johnchess
Personal Website https://www.saund.org.uk
Britbase https://www.britbase.info

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 3574
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:12 pm

In that case I am already a #4, as the late Joe Soesan (who I played twice, both draws) lost to Parr in the 1959 championships.

Come to that, didn't Frank Parr play at a British well into old age (and scored a very respectable result)?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19258
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:24 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote: Come to that, didn't Frank Parr play at a British well into old age (and scored a very respectable result)?
It looks as if his final British Championship was at Eastbourne in 1991. But he was still playing in Opens in the 1990s and Hastings for the rest of his life. My final game with him had been in the Torbay Open of 1995, when he won in Round 4 to take him to 4/4. I had been sitting next to his round 3 game and he had modernised his opening approach by giving the Tromp a try. His follow up to 2. .. d5 was Nc3 which swerves into a Veresov. (Those who played him may recall his frequent use of the Bird's Opening 1. f4)

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4223
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:07 pm

Nobody chose to mention that Ray Keene has a Botvinnik number of 1, having beaten him at Hastings.
You can't deal with Paul Morphy including only games with clocks. He played no games with clocks.
The late Ron Harman surprisingly had a Kasparov number of 2. He had beaten somebody at Islington who beat Gary.
Murry Chandler is another player who has a Kasparov number of 1.
There used to be, indeed it may still be there, a programme for Kasparov win numbers, using solely games on chessbase.

But I have beaten Karpov and Korchnoi simultaneously. Michel Franklin shares that. It was at bridge and they partnered ech other at Hastings.
I drew with David Howell. But that was in a simultaneous display and I don't think you should count games not played on equal terms. But hang about, I was giving the simul. He was 6. I think draws are fine, but on a different basis from wins.

Leonard of course partnered Bobby Fischer in a consultation game against Penrose and Clarke. Does Bobby have any other consultation games on record? It was ad***ic***d a draw of course.

Connections. Well, I did tour Disneyland with Dr Euwe.

Brian Towers
Posts: 1255
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Brian Towers » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:49 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:Mine's 2: I've beaten James Sherwin, who's beaten Fischer.
Excellent! That makes mine a 3 going back to when I beat Jack when we both played for Wincanton.

I remember when Richard Tabor, the Wincanton captain, told me he was promoting Jack above me. It meant sitting down between two players (the other was RG Gray) with an age difference of 78 and sum of 100. Jack was 11 and Mr Gray (as we called him) was 89. In what other sport do you have statistics like that?

Actually RG was quite a strong player in his youth and I beat him when I was playing for Wells. Anybody know if RG had any significant victims?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Brian Towers
Posts: 1255
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Brian Towers » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:55 am

According to Edward Winter's chess notes (http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/winter39.html) RG Gray was on the losing end of G. Cartier (Savielly Tartakower) and P.H. Hazzard versus J.C. Waterman and R.G. Gray, Horsington, Templecombe, 1944.

Since Tartakower has an MN of 2 that gives RG an MN of 3 and me, along with all RG's many opponents over the years, an MN of 4.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4223
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:11 am

As an Arbiter I will have to rule against counting consultation games.

Barry Sandercock
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:52 am

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Barry Sandercock » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:11 am

I beat J. Penrose in a simul. in 1963. Does he have an mn.?

Keith Arkell
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:10 am

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Keith Arkell » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:17 pm

Well, if Sherwin routes have been ruled out, I'll still lay claim to a Fischer number of 2. I can think of at least 2 different ways, as I beat both Robert Byrne and Larsen at the Watson Farley Williams events in the late 80s.

Leonard Barden
Posts: 1670
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:21 am

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Leonard Barden » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:52 pm

I claim a Fischer number of 0.5.

Tim Harding
Posts: 1967
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Contact:

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Tim Harding » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:29 pm

Keith Arkell wrote:Well, if Sherwin routes have been ruled out, I'll still lay claim to a Fischer number of 2. I can think of at least 2 different ways, as I beat both Robert Byrne and Larsen at the Watson Farley Williams events in the late 80s.
So anyone who has beaten Nigel Short or Keith has a Fischer number of 3 (counting only wins in proper tournaments).

Keith won our only game (Cork 1985) but I beat Nigel in the last round of the Charlton open 1976. He was only ten then but had started with 4/4 before losing to Michael MacDonald-Ross and then me.

Since I've lost to pretty much everyone then there must be a huge number of Fischer-4s.

The Mortimer route if allowed (not serious games v Morphy but they certainly played in Paris in the 1860s) makes me and a whole lot of other people Morphy-4 if any type of game and any result is allowed.

Really this thread should have been in the History section.
I shall open a new thread there on the topic of Philidor Numbers later today.
Tim Harding
Historian and FIDE Arbiter

Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

Barry Sandercock
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:52 am

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Barry Sandercock » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:56 pm

I beat Luke McShane when he was 8 in 1992. Would I get any kind of number for that?

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4223
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:45 pm

Barry S Luke became World U8 Champion when just 8. You get a Reuben 2. Luke beat me, albeit at rapidplay when he was 7.
I have a Morphy 3, but I expect you can improve on a Morphy 5.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 4182
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Fischer Number

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:25 am

"I claim a Fischer number of 0.5."

Excellent!

Post Reply