Bridge not a Sport (ECJ now agree)

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Chris Rice
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:15 pm

Contract Bridge should be considered a sport for VAT purposes according to the preliminary finds of the European Court of Justice. http://www.englishchess.org.uk/bridge-i ... -vat-case/

Chess to follow soon?

Brian Towers
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by Brian Towers » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:34 pm

Chris Rice wrote:Contract Bridge should be considered a sport for VAT purposes according to the preliminary finds of the European Court of Justice. http://www.englishchess.org.uk/bridge-i ... -vat-case/

Chess to follow soon?
How is this likely to affect Mike Basman?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Chris Rice
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:53 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Chris Rice wrote:Contract Bridge should be considered a sport for VAT purposes according to the preliminary finds of the European Court of Justice. http://www.englishchess.org.uk/bridge-i ... -vat-case/

Chess to follow soon?
How is this likely to affect Mike Basman?
One would have to qualify it with the fact that these are preliminary findings and the case hasn't yet been extended to chess. Assuming it is extended to chess then I assume Mike Basman could launch some kind of appeal to the relevant body and it will be up to the judge/adjudicator/whoever's discretion as to whether the ruling is quashed. This won't be the first time this has ever happened so there is probably some precedents in case law that the internet lawyers on this forum can point to.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:41 pm

Chris Rice wrote: Assuming it is extended to chess then I assume Mike Basman could launch some kind of appeal to the relevant body and it will be up to the judge/adjudicator/whoever's discretion as to whether the ruling is quashed.
It wasn't completely clear that even if organised in an activity that was definitively a sport, that the structure of the UKCC would necessarily be exempt from VAT.

Although if it proves possible to backdate any claim as the Bridge people would like to do, the ECF might be in line for a windfall.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by Joey Stewart » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:59 pm

Bridge seems like a much more chilled out passtime too, you never hear the same stories of anger and pettiness from bridge players as you do from chess.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

NickFaulks
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:26 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:Bridge seems like a much more chilled out passtime too, you never hear the same stories of anger and pettiness from bridge players as you do from chess.
I take it you don't play bridge.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Paul Dargan
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by Paul Dargan » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:13 pm

Yep - Joey clearly a non-player ... it is FAR worse

Paul

Richard Bates
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:47 pm

Paul Dargan wrote:Yep - Joey clearly a non-player ... it is FAR worse

Paul
At least he didn't include cheating! The bridge world having suffered in recent years the arguable equivalent of Magnus Carlsen being accused of using computer assistance... and being found guilty!

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:15 am

Also a bunch of other people getting accused, some let off, some not etc. Cheating in bridge is so 'easy' that its really scary when it gets loose.

Most people in Bridge are pretty civilised to their opponents, the issue is that you're playing with someone else which can lead to some really shocking behaviour at times.

Paul Dargan
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by Paul Dargan » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:44 pm

Yep - you're much more likley to see partner abuse than opponent abuse

IanCalvert
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by IanCalvert » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:59 pm

Maybe the partner abuse problem might be solved by a bridge variant where a carbon based life form player partnered a program ??

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:23 am

You seen how people treat inaminate objects? The only solution would be to make bridge players caring empaths, and well......

To be fair it isn't *that* common amongst stronger players because its so clearly blindingly counter productive. Although there are some who can't seem to help it.

Brian Towers
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by Brian Towers » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:10 pm

I suspect that most partner abuse occurs between people who have a reasonably serious relationship away from the bridge table and it is an extension of that. When I played competitive bridge (several decades ago) most of my partners were better (often much better) players than me and there was never even a hint of abuse. They were all very intelligent people who understood that to get the best out of me friendly encouragement was the best route.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by Joey Stewart » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:08 am

Oh, maybe bridge not as civilised as I imagined. Mind you, most non chess players are often shocked at some of the stories I tell them of controversies in the game, so I guess it should not be so surprising.

Does anybody have any especially amusing stories of anger during games of bridge to share?
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Bridge not a Sport

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:25 am

I have experienced, and indeed suffered from, petty and small minded behaviour at training courses for bridge directors. I have never encountered anything similar at either FIDE or ECF arbiter training courses.

That is one of the reasons why I largely gave up bridge directing and went back to chess.

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