Touch move rule

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David Blower
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by David Blower » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:04 pm

Adam Ashton wrote: I'm assuming the game doesn't have tremendous significance of course. I think you'd be obliged to claim on behalf of your team if it did.

Now if you were losing...
It was quite important. At the time in the match the score was still 0-0, and obviously I had no idea how the game would go. Plus if we had lost the match, there is a slight danger we will get relegated, moving down to a league that only has 4 rather than 5 boards.

As for the match itself up till that position, yes I'm winning, (Nf6 forks Queen and rook) but I have had enough matches where I have been winning, made a blunder and then lost. Last week for one!

NickFaulks
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:18 pm

My daughter played her first tournament game at age 6, and was winning comfortably against an 11 year old boy when he played Qxh7 and announced checkmate. The game ended there, even though ...Kxh7 was perfectly legal. I was TD, but could think of no reason not to accept the result as agreed by both players. A lesson learned.
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David Williams
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by David Williams » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:02 pm

I wouldn't hesitate to insist on touch move. I wouldn't dream of claiming a game if my opponent's phone rang - I'd probably try to dissuade him if he tried to concede. Why?

Colin S Crouch
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by Colin S Crouch » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:26 pm

Chris Rice wrote:The only time you should really talk during a tournament game is if you're offering a draw. Once could argue that its very distracting which I found one time when playing a regular Sussex player of Polish extraction at Hastings who took great delight in loudly pronouncing "schach!" whenever the opportunity arose.


Could this be the sane player from Polish origin who was complained about when he was heard swearing in Russian at his opponent, when play was still in progress? This was at a recent 4NCL.

Reg Clucas
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by Reg Clucas » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:00 pm

Gordon Cadden wrote:Have always announced a check. If you do not announce check, then you are hoping that your elderly opponent will overlook that his/her King is in check.
Integrity is important.
Would you also warn your opponent, then, if you attack their queen? Or for any other move you make which carries a threat?

Gordon Cadden
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by Gordon Cadden » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:26 pm

Reg Clucas wrote:
Gordon Cadden wrote:Have always announced a check. If you do not announce check, then you are hoping that your elderly opponent will overlook that his/her King is in check.
Integrity is important.
Would you also warn your opponent, then, if you attack their queen? Or for any other move you make which carries a threat?
No. Older players have become used to announcing check, and may expect their opponents to be polite, and indicate a check. A quiet whisper will suffice. Of course, a loud announcement of check, will disturb other players.
You are probably a young player, and may not be aware that announcing check was de regle for past generations.

John Upham
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by John Upham » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:30 pm

Colin S Crouch wrote: Could this be the sane player from Polish origin
Did you mean sane or same? :wink:
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Phil Neatherway
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by Phil Neatherway » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 pm

I must admit I was brought up to believe that you had to announce check. But I can't find anything to that effect in the Laws of Chess on the FIDE website.

Reg Clucas
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by Reg Clucas » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:36 pm

Gordon Cadden wrote: You are probably a young player
I wish!

Ian Thompson
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Graham Borrowdale wrote:Presumably he knew he had touched the queen. I would like to think that in that position most players, having touched the queen, would then move it, ...
If the initial description of the incident is correct, I would say that if anyone has not acted properly it is White. It says "From here my opponent made the move Qe7. I then pointed out he was in check, and that he had a legal move with the Queen, and must move the Queen." If it had been me, I would just have pointed out that Black was in check, so the Queen move was illegal. I'd only have said that he had to move the Queen if he tried to do anything else (other than resigning, which is what I would expect most players to do).

Paul McKeown
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by Paul McKeown » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:10 pm

Reg Clucas wrote:Would you also warn your opponent, then, if you attack their queen? Or for any other move you make which carries a threat?
Schach gardez!

Richard Thursby
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by Richard Thursby » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:19 pm

In the 1988 laws of chess (of which I have a physical copy) article 9.3 states "Declaring a check is not obligatory." My first observation of high level chess was the film American Gambit. The players didn't announce check so that was the habit I adopted.

[Apologies if I have already posted the following, or similar, on this board.]

If someone asks about "touch-move" (sic), the best response is to ask "What game are we playing?". When they get over it not being a trick question and they answer "chess", you ask the follow-up "What do the rules of chess say?".

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:31 pm

Richard Thursby wrote:In the 1988 laws of chess (of which I have a physical copy) article 9.3 states "Declaring a check is not obligatory."
That's a piece of evidence. There's at least one forum contributor who may have archives of all known laws of chess. Have any previous laws stated anything to the contrary? I'm struggling to recall whether it was ever an unwritten law to announce check. For what it's worth, I would always record it on the score-sheet even though the PGN standard and the current laws of chess for many years don't require it.

E Michael White
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by E Michael White » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:54 pm

Richard Thursby wrote:article 9.3 states "Declaring a check is not obligatory."
This was in the written rules until 1997, when the section on checkmate was moved to the objects section and that part about announcing check omitted. There was a FIDE ruling that said that a rule still applies even though not in the current edition, unless contradicted by later editions. I think you would have to conclude that stating check is allowed and arbiters cannot warn a player for it unless it is announced loudly. A player who complains unjustifiably should probably be warned for distracting his opponent. 1997 was the year that Stewart Reuben became involved in the rules I think, so he may have comments to make including a variety of analogies with sweets, lumps of wood and witches broomsticks.
Last edited by E Michael White on Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

John McKenna
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Re: Touch move rule

Post by John McKenna » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:21 am

Paul McKeown wrote:
Reg Clucas wrote:Would you also warn your opponent, then, if you attack their queen? Or for any other move you make which carries a threat?
Schach gardez!
Before the queen's power was extended in the 15th c. the rook was the most powerful piece and a player attacking it was expected to call 'check-rook'.

Perhaps the tradition came from the East since, I believe, it is written that Timur (Tamerlane) named one of his sons Shah Rukh because news of the birth (in 1377) came as he announced "shah-rukh" (check-rook) to his opponent.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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