Draw Your Way To A Title

[Joey Stewart]

With all the talk of computer chess programs lately, it got me thinking about something. Say, for example, a player spent all his practice time playing against the top level of *insert name of any decent engine here*, I would not expect him to become any better or more creative as the machine would punish the smallest attempts of such human play. I would, however, expect him to become extremely proficient and neutralizing positions and becoming utterly drawish (as this is the best result you can expect to achieve nowadays).


So, this leads back to the title of the topic - would such a player be able to go into an event and draw with absolutely everyone but achieve himself a title in the process?

[Roger de Coverly]

So, this leads back to the title of the topic - would such a player be able to go into an event and draw with absolutely everyone but achieve himself a title in the process?

I don't think there is any sort of minimum score required for a Norm, but unless you paid personally, it would be difficult to get an invitation to a tournament of players rated an average of 2450 or higher for an IM Norm and 2600 or higher for a GM Norm. Perhaps it is more likely in a team Swiss event, provided your fellow team members do well enough to get you the necessary opponents. In an individual Swiss, drawing every game wouldn't achieve anything. So such a player would at least have to win his or her way into a group of leaders before the draw taking could commence.

[Nevil Chan]

Subject of Brian's team talk before tonight's big match.

http://tinyurl.com/LCL-Div1-2013-14

[Arshad Ali]

With all the talk of computer chess programs lately, it got me thinking about something. Say, for example, a player spent all his practice time playing against the top level of *insert name of any decent engine here*, I would not expect him to become any better or more creative as the machine would punish the smallest attempts of such human play. I would, however, expect him to become extremely proficient and neutralizing positions and becoming utterly drawish (as this is the best result you can expect to achieve nowadays).

So, this leads back to the title of the topic - would such a player be able to go into an event and draw with absolutely everyone but achieve himself a title in the process?

Easier said than done. It's more difficult to do against a human player, whose style may be difficult to fathom and who may make erratic and/or idiosyncratic and/or "sub-optimal" moves. However, the style of Tigran Petrosian was the way you describe: he knew how to suck the dynamism out of a position (like Ungoliant in Tolkien's Silmarillion). Or the style of Ulf Andersson, which was "defence in depth." There's a game he played against Kasparov, where Kasparov just couldn't make any headway as Andersson went in for "defence in depth."

[Graham Borrowdale]

Subject of Brian's team talk before tonight's big match.

http://tinyurl.com/LCL-Div1-2013-14

May we know the subject of the DK pre-match team talk? Good luck by the way!

Perhaps it would be simpler if Wood Green played DK in the first match next season?

[Nevil Chan]

Subject of Brian's team talk before tonight's big match.

http://tinyurl.com/LCL-Div1-2013-14

May we know the subject of the DK pre-match team talk?

Drink, be merry, and watch out for sneaky GM tactics.

[IM Jack Rudd]

I don't think there is any sort of minimum score required for a Norm

There is. I think it's 35%.

[Peter Constantinou]

While being able to hold against a machine in an exchange slav or a caro-kann Karpov variation is certainly a skill, I don't think it would help much playing some murky KID/Grunfeld/Tiger's Modern position against a human (or indeed against a machine!). Our hypothetical silicon-enhanced warrior might find that humans don't cooperatively enter the hoped for "drawing lines". Certainly, in my limited experience as a mediocre 2250-2300 player against 2500-2600 opposition, they often deviate from their normal repertoire against equals specifically to create positions with imbalance and complexity, as well as avoiding any deep preparation attempts.

I would nevertheless disagree, Joey, that you shouldn't expect the human to gain strength from the training. I would have thought any chess when you are seriously trying to analyse deeply and play the best moves is good practice. And specifically with regard to the computer's overwhelming superiority in tactical sharpness and surprising saving chances, they are presumably a good partner for practicing positionally dominating or technically winning positions.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

It is fascinating sometimes watching a top GM game online when the computer starts screaming about a deep tactical idea that immediately wins the game. The amount of times that the top GMs manage to work out enough of the tactics to play moves like that is deeply impressive (even if they take 20-30 minutes over the move, they more often than not manage to find it). And the rare times when they miss the moves and fail to play like a machine, it feels like a bit of humanity has come back into the room.

[Arshad Ali]

While being able to hold against a machine in an exchange slav or a caro-kann Karpov variation is certainly a skill, I don't think it would help much playing some murky KID/Grunfeld/Tiger's Modern position against a human (or indeed against a machine!). Our hypothetical silicon-enhanced warrior might find that humans don't cooperatively enter the hoped for "drawing lines". Certainly, in my limited experience as a mediocre 2250-2300 player against 2500-2600 opposition, they often deviate from their normal repertoire against equals specifically to create positions with imbalance and complexity, as well as avoiding any deep preparation attempts.

Couldn't agree with you more. They might even go for dubious positions just to test the skill and understanding of their opponent.

[Joey Stewart]

I suspect someone wanting to get a title this way would be picking the most safe and symmetrical positions possible, not some sort of razor sharp theory where he is hoping to run into one of the forced draws that exist in those lines.

There is no fun to playing engines whatsoever, so training with them just seems a totally depresing prospect. I might not be the most attacking player out there, but it is still nice to at least try a few tactics now and then and feel you have half a chance of pulling them off (or, at the very least, furthering some sort of long term goal).