English Chess Forum

According to http://www.2700chess.com/ our very own Mickey Adams is just a few points from breaking his all time peak of 2761 from last year. Great to see that in his 40's he's as good as ever. Onwards and upwards Mickey.

Good to see older players still up there with the best of them, but he'll only be as good as he ever was if he becomes the World N°4 again.

Depends whether you're talking about absolute or relative strength, I suppose. Tal in the late '70s was arguably better than Tal circa 1960, but Karpov had emerged in the meantime.

IM Jack Rudd wrote:Depends whether you're talking about absolute or relative strength, I suppose. Tal in the late '70s was arguably better than Tal circa 1960, but Karpov had emerged in the meantime.

All strength is relative since you can only play the people facing you. My point is that Mickey isn't dropping down the table despite his age.

MJMcCready wrote:According to http://www.2700chess.com/ our very own Mickey Adams is just a few points from breaking his all time peak of 2761 from last year. Great to see that in his 40's he's as good as ever. Onwards and upwards Mickey.

Peak rating, but not peak ranking. A fine achievement indeed, but would you really say that the Michael Adams of now is stronger than the Michael Adams that was 4th in the world? (was that about 10 years ago now? I haven't bothered checking)

Lewis Martin wrote:

MJMcCready wrote:According to http://www.2700chess.com/ our very own Mickey Adams is just a few points from breaking his all time peak of 2761 from last year. Great to see that in his 40's he's as good as ever. Onwards and upwards Mickey.

Peak rating, but not peak ranking. A fine achievement indeed, but would you really say that the Michael Adams of now is stronger than the Michael Adams that was 4th in the world? (was that about 10 years ago now? I haven't bothered checking)

Probably. He's been playing and working on the game full-time since then; I'd be surprised if he hadn't improved.

I asked the same question about Nigel Short. You could ask Mickey the same question. I'd not expect either of them to actually go so far as to say whether they think they are stronger or weaker as chess players now, but it is an interesting angle. (I think Nigel said somewhere that he had found it more difficult as he got older, but I may be misremembering that.) Are there people posting here in their 40s who would say they are stronger now then when they were in their 20s?

In a very interesting exchange of views on the Seniors tab, Keith Arkell certainly seems to think he's stronger these days then when he had a higher rating previously.

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... 9&start=15

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Are there people posting here in their 40s who would say they are stronger now then when they were in their 20s?

I am for sure. But then I was rubbish in my 20s. Even more rubbish, I mean.

Starting from a low base it’s not that hard to get better as you get older. That said, there are definitely challenges to working properly on chess post 40. I find it much harder to remember stuff, for example. Before I just did. Now I have to make a conscious effort.

Improving later in life is a different story when you’re already very good, but nevertheless it seems plausible to me that Adams might be 'better' now than he was when he was world number 4. Anybody got a suggestion as to how we could demonstrate that either way. Comparing ratings is clearly not going to be that helpful. How else could we do it?

Would a Houdini match-up comparison of a sample of games work?



JB (aged 46 and 1 week).

I am now aged 64 and my rating has remained remarkably consistent for the last 20 years (grading code 121968G).

There was one unexpected peak in 2009, which was largely due to the adjustment that was made to all ECF gradings at that time. I don't remember what my rating was in the 1970's but I am pretty sure that it was much lower than in 1994.

Presumably my grade will gradually fall off in the coming years but I don't see any sign of it happening yet. I am not a deeply theoretical player or a highly analytical one - I tend to move instinctively and very quickly.

One strange thing I noticed is that my Rapidplay grading is these days significantly higher than my Standard rating, whereas it used to be slightly lower. This does seem counter-intuitive, I would have expected that with age my thinking processes would slow down and my Rapidplay would become weaker.

Having said all that, I am a lowly club player and for a strong GM like Mickey Adams the effects of the ageing process would probably be quite different!

Jonathan Bryant wrote: Would a Houdini match-up comparison of a sample of games work?

The "intrinsic performance rating" beloved of the engine hunters might give an indication.

The style of Adams has always been understood to be one of putting the pieces on their correct squares. That in itself is conducive to longevity, but perhaps engines have given top GMs a little bit more information in deciding what should work and what doesn't.

I wouldn't have thought that Mickey's age was much of a factor. Surely, it's more about desire and motivation? He clearly still has it, although at that level it must require a lot of hard work. For professional sports players the stress of continuous travel and living out of a suitcase is often what makes them go into semi-retirement.

Some players just have to be the best and can't cope with slipping down the rankings. It happened with Kasparov, albeit he had political motivations as well, and I can't honestly see Carlsen continuing as an also-ran once a number of others catch up him. It's a shame for the fans however as it's always good to see great players performing even if they are not quite at their peak.

It's clearly different for amateur and casual players than professionals but reckon I am a much better player than in my 20s and know many other amateurs who have have improved considerably in later years.

By the way, Mickey Adams may not do too many simuls, but we managed to get him to Shropshire earlier this year for a great event. If you can get a gap in his busy diary, it's a real boost for local players to take on Britain's number one, and it's always good to be able give some direct support to our professionals.