Stalemate wins in K + P versus K

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David Pardoe
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Re: Stalemate wins in K + P versus K

Post by David Pardoe » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:47 pm

Quite so, Roger...
So you recognise the extra skill (or technique...) of players in certain situations, even though this has not translated directly into an actual win...
I had a position recently where I was almost battering my opponent off the board, but as the time controls loomed, I decided to duck out of a lottery shootout and agreed a draw...
It might even be argued that my opponent should also merit extra grading points for some very cool defending...

Again, you may also opt for penalty points (or credits to the `loser`) where `wins` occur by `bad luck` such as clock issues, or moblie phone kicking off...
Last edited by David Pardoe on Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BRING BACK THE BCF

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Stalemate wins in K + P versus K

Post by Michael Farthing » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:54 am

Roger, I think you miss the irony of David's post

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Stalemate wins in K + P versus K

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:55 pm

If stalemate became a win for the stalemater, even if just in K+P v K, Whites' advantage would be significantly higher. Perhaps 60-40 for all positions. Since nearly all chess is played as one game matches, it would damage chess considerably. White would have too big an advantage. If rounds were normally of two games, one with white and one with black, this problem would disappear. I can't see that happening.

Somebody asked earlier, 'Why debate such matters as FIDE obviously aren't going to listen to views expressed on this forum?' But such views have resulted in changes to standard practice in FIDE events.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Stalemate wins in K + P versus K

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:08 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:If stalemate became a win for the stalemater, even if just in K+P v K, Whites' advantage would be significantly higher. Perhaps 60-40 for all positions.
Positions with K+P v K being a draw is the base of the theory of many more complex endings and underpins why some middle game structures are essentially drawish. If you accept that Black is a little worse in the starting position, then the bail outs for a draw are perhaps
(a) forced repetition
(b) forced repetition by perpetual checks on the king
(c) opposite colour Bishop endings
and
(d) K+P v K being a draw through stalemate in many positions and by extension the endings which have a potentially forced simplification to that.

Perhaps wrong colour Bishop and rook pawn could be added.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Stalemate wins in K + P versus K

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:55 pm

In the last round of the World U8 there was a rook + bishop + mutli-pawn positions which was very blocked. White had the only available break. After seemingly endless manouevres they agreed a draw. It was on an electronic board, but it was beyond me whether there had been 5-fold repetition. You could check up as it was on board 3.
I asked the Indian lad after the game whether he had considered g5. He said yes, but rejected it because Black would be able to set up counterplay. He still got the bronze, although finishing 3rd equal.

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Mats Winther
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Re: Stalemate wins in K + P versus K

Post by Mats Winther » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:32 am

This is how chess is played today, in yesterday's game, because 1.e4 has been refuted. There's no idea to try for a win. Instead, one must maneuver a little, and then opt for a draw:


Richard Bates
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Re: Stalemate wins in K + P versus K

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:52 am

I seem to recall from only a couple of weeks ago some chap winning almost all his games in one of the strongest tournaments of all time, exclusively employing the move 1.e4. I guess he was just fortunate that none of his opponents were aware of the refutation...

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Mats Winther
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Re: Stalemate wins in K + P versus K

Post by Mats Winther » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:33 am

Caruana employed the d3-Spanish in the Sinquefield tournament, against Aronian. He went back and forth with the pieces and happened to win, but it wasn't thanks to the opening. The other Spanish game was against Nakamura, who drew with a Berlin. Future GM chess: 1.e4 e5 1/2-1/2
/Mats

Lewis Martin
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Re: Stalemate wins in K + P versus K

Post by Lewis Martin » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:17 pm

Mats Winther wrote:Caruana employed the d3-Spanish in the Sinquefield tournament, against Aronian. He went back and forth with the pieces and happened to win, but it wasn't thanks to the opening.
/Mats
Last time I looked, you don't win games from the opening!

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