Biggest shock in England this year?

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Tryfon Gavriel
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Re: Biggest shock in England this year?

Post by Tryfon Gavriel » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:16 am

Hi Lee

Congrats on your "upset" win - a great example of how to play against the IQP.

I was just curious why you yourself withdrew from the event after Round 5:

http://www.classic.livechess.co.uk/2014 ... /p198.html

Please excuse the potential impoliteness of the enquiry if you had a cold etc. I should have perhaps stopped playing when my cold hit during the event as well.

Isn't it in all our interests for your rating to reflect your true strength - so shouldn't you have ideally finished the event, to stop the nonsense with your ultra low rating?! It may be the case you are more suited to having more time available in FIDE rated one day games, than club matches ?!

I myself was a victim in a later round against what seemed to be an underrated Japanese player:

http://www.classic.livechess.co.uk/2014 ... /p150.html

who got +2.84 which * 9 = a 25 point increase.

I just wonder though how trustworthy the FIDE rating system is sometimes when players for whatever reason are not really the rating they are indicated as. Do you find this is a bit unfair for the rating damage inflicted on their "victims" ?!

Best wishes
Tryfon
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Biggest shock in England this year?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:34 am

Tryfon Gavriel wrote: I myself was a victim in a later round against what seemed to be an underrated Japanese player:
The Japanese pool of players is presumably relatively isolated and it is plausible that it has become out of line with the rest of the world. When a few years back, a similar effect was observed amongst Myanmar players but in the opposite direction, FIDE eventually clawed back the excess points. There was suspicion of ratings manipulation as well in the Myanmar cases.

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Lee Bullock
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Re: Biggest shock in England this year?

Post by Lee Bullock » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:36 pm

Tryfon Gavriel wrote:Hi Lee

Congrats on your "upset" win - a great example of how to play against the IQP.

I was just curious why you yourself withdrew from the event after Round 5:

http://www.classic.livechess.co.uk/2014 ... /p198.html

Please excuse the potential impoliteness of the enquiry if you had a cold etc. I should have perhaps stopped playing when my cold hit during the event as well.

Isn't it in all our interests for your rating to reflect your true strength - so shouldn't you have ideally finished the event, to stop the nonsense with your ultra low rating?! It may be the case you are more suited to having more time available in FIDE rated one day games, than club matches ?!

I myself was a victim in a later round against what seemed to be an underrated Japanese player:

http://www.classic.livechess.co.uk/2014 ... /p150.html

who got +2.84 which * 9 = a 25 point increase.

I just wonder though how trustworthy the FIDE rating system is sometimes when players for whatever reason are not really the rating they are indicated as. Do you find this is a bit unfair for the rating damage inflicted on their "victims" ?!

Best wishes
Tryfon
Hi Tryfon,

I spoke to you in the lift about your really good Rapid event and tournament if you remember.

Anyway big fan of yours so be nice ;)

Well I withdrew due to feeling totally drained and shattered as I was working for Chess in Schools that week from 9am-3.30pm. By the Friday I felt awful. I played v some Norwegian guy and I was badly beaten and played so poorly that I felt I would lose all my games anyway and my rating would actually go lower not higher. I am the 3rd most active payer in England so withdrawing from events is not normal for me.

I would say my Fide is only about 200/250 pts inaccurate. But of course this gives me an advantage as anybody expecting a 1500 when they play me are going to get a serious shock. I like anyone can play above my level also. So at times I am sure I am playing like a 1900 as a 1500.

I dont get to play many Fide events. When I do like the British Major for example I was out till the early hours every night clubbing. So was not doing myself any justice in my games. With the emergence of the Hampstead/Golders Green events I am sure my fide will finally catch up with my strength.

In the past Hampstead events I was normally losing fide points due to the crazy pairings. I would get some 1800-1900 under rated junior first round ands lose badly. Then get an un rated easy game the next, win that then play a really good 1800-1900 player which I was no match for.

But with my ECF rated only games I was playing at my level and winning a lot more than I lost. So my ecf has shot up from 79-130 in 3 years. Anyway dont think you have anything to worry about yet Tryfon I am not at your level or capable of beating someone like you ;)
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2015 and 2016 Chess character of the year :)

Its not a failure to lose. Its a failure when you dont try and win.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Biggest shock in England this year?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:10 pm

Lee Bullock wrote: I played black in the first round of the London Chess classic Fide open v Jon Friedland (2089) My rating only being (1514) a difference of 575. My win made the top 10 of biggest shocks in the world this year on a certain website but of course not all games are submitted to that website. (Edit, I should add the ecf Grades were 201 v 130 as Roger pointed out)
Very nice result Lee. I doubt there are many similar in country this year. I know people with ECFs 50 points higher than yours who’ve never beaten anybody 200+.


I was interested that you were Black. I noticed about 5 or 6 years ago that my biggest scalps came when I was playing Black and not White. Which seems rather counter-intuitive, but it’s still true even today. In fact my top three results in terms of wins against opponents grade have all come with me playing Black.

Maybe that’s just chance - after all your most recent post has a game in which you’re White - but I was wondering if anybody else has experienced something similar.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Biggest shock in England this year?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:23 pm

There can easily be an element of expecting the game to win itself when you are playing a significantly "weaker" opponent with White, for sure.

(whereas with Black you are at least prepared for them playing a "drawish" line and trying to halve out at all costs)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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Lee Bullock
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Re: Biggest shock in England this year?

Post by Lee Bullock » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:28 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Lee Bullock wrote: I played black in the first round of the London Chess classic Fide open v Jon Friedland (2089) My rating only being (1514) a difference of 575. My win made the top 10 of biggest shocks in the world this year on a certain website but of course not all games are submitted to that website. (Edit, I should add the ecf Grades were 201 v 130 as Roger pointed out)
Very nice result Lee. I doubt there are many similar in country this year. I know people with ECFs 50 points higher than yours who’ve never beaten anybody 200+.


I was interested that you were Black. I noticed about 5 or 6 years ago that my biggest scalps came when I was playing Black and not White. Which seems rather counter-intuitive, but it’s still true even today. In fact my top three results in terms of wins against opponents grade have all come with me playing Black.

Maybe that’s just chance - after all your most recent post has a game in which you’re White - but I was wondering if anybody else has experienced something similar.
Hi Jon,

Yeah thanks ;)

I also feel I can cause more shocks being black. Its very odd. Maybe I am too over aggressive with white and get picked off by the higher rated players. But tbh I have only played 6 players in my life over 180 so its hard to gauge any results or patterns. With those 6 games I have a win a draw and 4 losses. But the 2 good results were with Black. I drew with Julian Farrand(181) last year in the London League. The other were v very strong juniors. Jamie Horton (188) and Ollie Wilson (184). And another was John Duggan (188)

I may play in more opens after my recent results. Going to play in my section a bit also though.

And I see you have beaten Jaunooby, that is some result.
2013/2014 and 16/17 U140 Grand Prix Winner! ;)

2015 and 2016 Chess character of the year :)

Its not a failure to lose. Its a failure when you dont try and win.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Biggest shock in England this year?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:57 pm

Lee Bullock wrote: And I see you have beaten Jaunooby, that is some result.
I did :-) but it was the last round of a tournament and he was out of the running in an event that he often wins which probably affected his motivation somewhat. And although I played reasonably well the decisive moment was not my great play but him chucking a piece in for no particular reason.

Still, I’m taking it as my best individual result ever and yes, it was with Black!

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