Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titles."

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Niall Doran
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by Niall Doran » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:52 am

I think Geoff Chandler was being tongue in cheek: "He could be the 1977 conkers champion or the 1969 Snakes and Ladders Champion.
He is a man of many talents and he has met the Queen. Leave him alone."

However I think claiming a number of British Championship titles that one doesn't have in order to flog books could be considered fraud.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:06 am

Niall Doran wrote:... I think claiming a number of British Championship titles that one doesn't have in order to flog books could be considered fraud.
In a legsl, 'thing you could be prosecuted for', sense? I very much doubt it.

It’s bullshitting. No more, no less.

Matt Fletcher
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by Matt Fletcher » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:37 am

Niall Doran wrote:I think Geoff Chandler was being tongue in cheek: "He could be the 1977 conkers champion or the 1969 Snakes and Ladders Champion.
He is a man of many talents and he has met the Queen. Leave him alone."

However I think claiming a number of British Championship titles that one doesn't have in order to flog books could be considered fraud.
Geoff might have had his tongue in his cheek, but I didn't - it looks to me that the paragraph is deliberately intended to be read as Olimpiu is reading it, but doesn't specifically say what he's reading. Gives plenty of room to wriggle if questioned / challenged.

AustinElliott
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by AustinElliott » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:47 am

Noted American philosophy Professor Harry Frankfurt has written an entire monograph on bull**it, called, er, "On bull**it". Read the first para of its Wikipedia entry and ask yourself if it applies..

PS Those asterisks appeared automatically. Nothing to do with me, guv.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:07 pm

Has anyone asked Ray?

Susan Polgar is always quoted as "four times world champion", which is a bit misleading.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:37 pm

I did actually ask Ray about the "fourteen titles" claim in Samurai Chess. Well I say that, I managed to work out what he must have included and I put this to him on chessgames.com. My recollection is that he kind-of-assented. Regrettably I can't remember exactly how the trick was done and I've been banned from his page for years so can't ask again. I have no idea at all how he's topped it up to twenty-two.

Becoming A Grandmaster, if that's the book referred to, is indeed a very good read. It was probably also a good read in the various unacknowledged places it first appeared.

Meanwhile the bit about being "chess tutor to The Imperial Court of Iran" is a new one on me. Has anybody come across that before? Also, "Commander of the Polish Royal Order of the White Swan" used to be merely "officer of the Companionate of the White Swan", not that it matters.
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Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:24 pm

AustinElliott wrote:Noted American philosophy Professor Harry Frankfurt has written an entire monograph on bull**it, called, er, "On bull**it" ...

PS Those asterisks appeared automatically. Nothing to do with me, guv.

Oh indeed. It’s a very good read. I bought a copy on kindle and subsequently discovered it was available on line for free.


I wonder why you’re getting asterisked for "bull**it" but I’m not for "bullshitting". A bit of a glitch in the sweary matrix, that.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:28 pm

The vagaries of swearcheckers are a thing to behold. One forum I'm on didn't like my saying that I'd watched The Best Little Whorehouse In Texas.

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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by David Robertson » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:17 pm

JustinHorton wrote:Also, "Commander of the Polish Royal Order of the White Swan" used to be merely "officer of the Companionate of the White Swan", not that it matters.
This is wrong, so wrong. It matters a lot.

The Polish Royal Order of the White Swan implies, well, at least some regal involvement. But Poland has had no monarch since the late 18th century. Before that, it had c. 300 years of 'elected' monarchies, and no record of a Royal Order of White Swan awards.

Never mind. Poland has had for centuries, and continues to have, its most prestigious national civilian award, named in honour of the Republic, the Order of the White Eagle. Ray Keene is not a recipient. Thus one is driven to speculate that some confusion has arisen over which bird Keene believes he has received.

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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by PeterFarr » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:17 pm

Well we've been over most of this before, as has the S&B blog in much more depth of course.

A new thing seems to be RDK's claim that "He has recently been appointed a faculty member of Dr Manahel Thabet’s prestigious Gifted Academy, based in Dubai, London and Oxford." Not quite clear where the prestige comes from; maybe it's the fact that the "Dean" is "Nobel prize nominee" Tony Buzan and the Board includes Lord Hardinge that gives it such lustre. It couldn't possibly be just another vehicle for re-cycling mind-mapping, speed reading and memory training in disguise.

Still it will make a nice change from spending 24 years "tirelessly" working for the Brain Trust charity (not to be confused with the Brains Trust charity of course, which is shall we say, easier to identify as an organisation devoted to a worthy cause).

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:09 pm

JustinHorton wrote: I have no idea at all how he's topped it up to twenty-two.
That's odd of itself, since if you define serious chess as games included in a FIDE or national rating or grading system, it is approaching thirty years since he last played. Accumulating 22 titles in a playing career of perhaps 25 years is an impressive achievement which deserves verification.

Andy Stoker
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by Andy Stoker » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:29 am

Insight(?) from the Chessgames.com forum:

Feb-24-12 SimonWebbsTiger: Hi Ray I recently acquired some old volumes of <Chess> from the 80s.

Vol. 49, nos 933-934, October 1984 had a rather interesting photo taken by you at Silverstone . It features Annette Keene, Julian Hardinge and the driver Simon Hadfield in a vintage Formula 3 car. The caption read that you were part of a consortium which won the British Championship for Historic Formula 3 cars. Do you still keep up your interest in vintage racers?

Premium Chessgames Member ray keene: sadly and for a variety of reasons we only did this for one season-i did enjoy winning another british championship though!

and then again.

June 20, 2014: “football-i have actually devised a programme to instruct leading footballers in
1) strategic thinking
2) memory skills so they can remember what they have learnt
i hope to launch it in Mexico next year
in the Uruguay game I wd have gone for a very tight defence at all times with 3 strikers and long balls lobbed as frequently as possible down the pitch”

No Britsh title claimed - but clearly no end to the man's talents

O.G. Urcan
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by O.G. Urcan » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:54 am

In a 1995 book Raymond Keene answered the question: "Have I ever competed in the world chess championship?". His reply was "Yes".

See the "World championship competitor" section of "Cuttings" (http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/cuttings.html) for his basis for that claim.

Two years later, a book of Keene's proclaimed that he was "considered one of the strongest players in the world". The article http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/keene.html points out that in reality "he played his last serious chess in the mid-1980s, and on the 1986 rating list he was not among the top ten players in England, let alone the world".

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JustinHorton
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:26 am

I'm terribly disappointed not to see the World Peace and Prosperity Foundation on Ray's list.
"Do you play chess?"
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JustinHorton
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Re: Keene's claim to have won "22 national championship titl

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:28 am

"the 80 programme series aired by Channel 4 on the Kasparov v Short 1993 world championship"

I remember them being interminable, but not that interminable.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com