at the mercy of the arbiter

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JustinHorton
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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:33 am

Probably not, because you need a human being on hand to explain and check the pairings anyway. Or to perform them manually when there's a computer problem.
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Keith Arkell
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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by Keith Arkell » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:47 pm

Matt,you've got me wrong.I'm not suggeting sir John Lawson did anything unscrupulous! The only ''crimes'' of Bielby and lawson were their letters to the chess mags in which they wrongly accused me of withdrawing,wrongly connected this so called withdrawal with ''unpleasant scenes'' Saturday evening(I wasn't there and didn't complain),and furthermore Lawson in his letter to Chess moves(or it's equivalent at that time) went as far as to suggest the BCF impose sanctions on me for this so-called withdrawal.The tones of the letters weren't very nice,and to this day I have still had no apology for what I can only presume was these guys getting me somehow mixed up with Suba.
These letters are there for anyone to look up who has the old mags to hand.I wasn't identified by name,but it was clear to everybody that it was me they referred to.

The '90 Scarborough entry form advertised 'random pirings'.Unfortunately these ''random pairings'' were not done publicly,and as I was saying before,the event got a reputation for these pairings throwing top players together early on much more than random probability would suggest.I don't think the Crouch system was around in those days,and certainly it wasn't connected with Scarborough.

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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:40 pm

Keith,
I would be interested to see these letters because this really doesn't sound like John Lawson to me.
On the issue of Crouch pairings, they were invented in response to Hastings 2002/3 and were used at a number of event including Islington 2003. I know that they were used at Scarborough one year and I thought this was when Hebden played Rooney in round one, however this doesn't seem to tally with the dates that you have given, so I must be mistaken.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:31 pm

Funnily enough, I got upfloated for two successive rounds (3 & 4) this year at Blackpool too!

I pointed it out to the arbiter just before start of play on Sunday morning - he just said something like "that's what happens sometimes, I'll try not to do the same again for this afternoon" (!)

I duly went to play, and somehow managed to win :D I was, sure enough, downfloated for the final round. I managed to lose that one, thus missing out on grading prize money :(
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:30 pm

Sometimes two successive upfloats is the right pairing (for example, in the trivial case of a sole trailer, or the less trivial case where avoiding it would result in a colour-transfer).

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Nigel_Davies
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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by Nigel_Davies » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:13 pm

Keith Arkell wrote: in his letter to Chess moves(or it's equivalent at that time) went as far as to suggest the BCF impose sanctions on me for this so-called withdrawal.The tones of the letters weren't very nice,and to this day I have still had no apology for what I can only presume was these guys getting me somehow mixed up with Suba.
These letters are there for anyone to look up who has the old mags to hand.I wasn't identified by name,but it was clear to everybody that it was me they referred to.
I do wonder about the chess scene and what sometimes seems like downright hostility towards masters of the art. If you look at martial arts for example, there's tremendous respect and actual reverence for masters' skills.

What do you think the problem is, do we need to kill a few people or something? BTW, I read one story I saw about a guy called Kuo Yun-shen who reputedly killed so many of his sparring partners that they put him in prison, only for the guy to develop a technique called 'Demon Hand' whilst he was in shackles. I guess it must have been a bit boring for him with nothing to do.

Anyhow, I'm switching so as to get a little bit more respect, though of course I might return to chess for the odd club game or two.

BTW, Kuo Yun-shen was the main teacher of the 'Great Grandmaster' of the artform I'm learning though my teacher doesn't seem to want to talk about him too much. N

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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by TomChivers » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:07 pm

There are many strong players who command almost-universal respect, eg Michael Adams.

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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by Nigel_Davies » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:09 pm

TomChivers wrote:There are many strong players who command almost-universal respect, eg Michael Adams.
I think it's 'a few' rather than 'many', they're really the exception rather than the rule. For example a more colourful figure like Nigel Short probably commands very little respect, rather irrespective of their relative playing strength, and Nigel probably realises this himself. My guess is that this is why he walked so quickly when his mobile phone went off last year; better a point than to be pilloried.

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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by Simon Brown » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:50 pm

Sorry Nigel (D) but I don't agree.

Nigel (S) may have made has fair share of what people may perceive as mistakes, but, with one exception to my mind, he has thought out his actions carefully, and acted accordingly. I think the UK chess scene would be the poorer without him, whether you agree with what he does or not.

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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by Keith Arkell » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:08 am

Jack,sometimes yes,but this this time very clearly no.The correct pairings were glaringly obvious.Lara Barnes saw it at a glance and so obviously did I.

Matt,there must be someone out there who has the relevant back issues(John Saunders or anybody please copy and paste!).I'm not imagining it or exaggerating.Bielby wrote in BCM, letters section ;and Lawson wrote in the BCF monthly mag a month or 2 later.

Tom, I don't think this is about which GMs ''command universal respect'' as you put it, and which GMs meet pockets of disrespect(by the way I was an IM at the time).You give the example of Mickey ''commmanding universal respect'.If Mickey had played at Scarborough in those days I doubt he would have been trated any different to Suba,me,Mark Hebden,Dave Rooney or any other strong playes from out of town.
Mickey is probably better than me at taking a stance when he doesn't like something,(eg when he walked out on his 4NCL team,or when he refused to play off for the British title).Maybe I am too co-operative sometimes,but I would be surprised if there was any corelation between being over co-operative and losing respect. The kind of thing I am talking about I don't think is personal..There are some who simply don't like professionals,and think we should go get a ''proper'' job.

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Nigel_Davies
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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by Nigel_Davies » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:07 am

Simon Brown wrote:Sorry Nigel (D) but I don't agree.

Nigel (S) may have made has fair share of what people may perceive as mistakes, but, with one exception to my mind, he has thought out his actions carefully, and acted accordingly. I think the UK chess scene would be the poorer without him, whether you agree with what he does or not.
I've heard a lot of hostility towards Nigel (S) over the years despite what you say being correct. And there's been very little in the way of respect for his fantastic achievements.

I think it's interesting to compare Jimmy White or Alex Higgins in snooker. They're still viewed with great affection and indeed awe despite innumerable actions that would have had them pilloried if they were chess players.

There's no doubt in my mind; huge swathes of the chess scene treat strong players with contempt and hostility when you compare it to other disciplines.

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JustinHorton
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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:10 am

There are some top chess players who find it difficult to treat other people with respect and consideration and as a result are not as popular with the general chess fraternity as they might be otherwise. People can claim otherwise if they wish: but there are a fair few bullies and jerks about and people who come into contact with them don't tend to like them. Possibly it's this that's different about chess, there's no great divide between fans and players since in chess we're all in the latter group, and so in this particular sport we see what fans of other sports do not.

What's Jimmy White done, by the way? Alex Higgins is one thing, but is White really the same sort of creature?
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Nigel_Davies
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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by Nigel_Davies » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:19 am

JustinHorton wrote:There are some top chess players who find it difficult to treat other people with respect and consideration and as a result are not as popular with the general chess fraternity as they might be otherwise. People can claim otherwise if they wish: but there are a fair few bullies and jerks about and people who come into contact with them don't tend to like them. Possibly it's this that's different about chess, there's no great divide between fans and players since in chess we're all in the latter group, and so in this particular sport we see what fans of other sports do not.

What's Jimmy White done, by the way? Alex Higgins is one thing, but is White really the same sort of creature?
I could quote you chapter and verse about IMs and GMs being insulted and abused by people they'd never even met. There's plenty of it on the internet. N

Re: Jimmy White:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manc ... 715863.stm

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JustinHorton
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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:28 am

I'd not too distressed that White apparently took cocaine, to be honest. In truth I couldn't care less. Got anything better?

"IMs and GMs being insulted and abused by people they'd never even met"? Well, bring it on. Bear in mind though that:

a) they are two sides to every story
b) it's unlikely the professional chessplayers are "insulted and abused by people they'd never even met" to anything like the same extent as most other professional sportspeople.

As a rule, most occupational groups feel undervalued and misunderstood by other people. Very often there's something to this. Is there really more than usual where professional chessplayers are concerned? I'd doubt it.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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JustinHorton
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Re: at the mercy of the arbiter

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:32 am

Actually, thinking about this "insulted and abused by people they've never met" - this is not good, but it happens in a lot of jobs, doesn't it? Including a fair few I've done myself. Even when I was working as a librarian.
"Do you play chess?"
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