Cheating in chess

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Paul Cooksey
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:32 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:24 pm
You can try the statistical analysis that asserts the player wasn't good enough to play the moves made, without external assistance, but that's not accepted in the absence of physical evidence.
To ban a cheater, sure, that seems established. But if I ask for my entry fee back because the winner had a 100% match to Stockfish, maybe different.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:48 pm

Conditions for 6 months and indoor sports with no more than 6 people. I don’t think chess is on the cards till Easter, unless it’s just small club chess activity.

Tim Spanton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Tim Spanton » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:51 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:48 pm
Conditions for 6 months and indoor sports with no more than 6 people. I don’t think chess is on the cards till Easter, unless it’s just small club chess activity.
The restrictions certainly seem tighter than they were re indoor activities, but three-board matches still possible, probably

Tim Spanton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Tim Spanton » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:53 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:51 pm
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:48 pm
Conditions for 6 months and indoor sports with no more than 6 people. I don’t think chess is on the cards till Easter, unless it’s just small club chess activity.
The restrictions certainly seem tighter than they were re indoor activities, but three-board matches still possible, probably
Whoops - this should be in the (Chess) Life Returning To Normal Thread ...

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:55 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:51 pm
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:48 pm
Conditions for 6 months and indoor sports with no more than 6 people. I don’t think chess is on the cards till Easter, unless it’s just small club chess activity.
The restrictions certainly seem tighter than they were re indoor activities, but three-board matches still possible, probably
Yes, having a small amount of internal chess club activity seems fair. Although probably Boris has the don’t mix with other households measure still up his sleeve. And that would stop even internal club chess.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:56 pm

Oh yeah, wrong thread! Lol

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:07 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:55 pm
Tim Spanton wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:51 pm
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:48 pm
Conditions for 6 months and indoor sports with no more than 6 people. I don’t think chess is on the cards till Easter, unless it’s just small club chess activity.
The restrictions certainly seem tighter than they were re indoor activities, but three-board matches still possible, probably
Yes, having a small amount of internal chess club activity seems fair. Although probably Boris has the don’t mix with other households measure still up his sleeve. And that would stop even internal club chess.
Yes but stuff like that isn't sustainable for 6 months (whatever some may be briefing now)

There would likely be mass disobedience, and possibly actual civil unrest, if they actually tried to make that stick.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:35 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:24 pm
You can try the statistical analysis that asserts the player wasn't good enough to play the moves made, without external assistance
Yes, but in poker the argument is the opposite. The player made "moves" which would, in the absence of external information, lead to his ruin. He was a good enough player to know that, and he did know that, but they didn't.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:01 pm

Any chance of the "stray" posts in here being moved to the relevant thread mods?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:18 pm

Returning to poker. There was one occasion when I knew for certain that I was being cheated. What is more, I think I may be able to explain it to all of you.
It was 7 card stud and Ihad 4 hearts showing, including the ACE and KING. All I needed was one heart concealed and I would be certain to be winning at that stage as neither of my opponents had an open pair. There was one card to come.
I bet the pot and a mug called. The player in number one seat raised the pot. I could have reraised all-in and it would be about 4/1 against the cheat making a full house. At best he could get 3-1 for his money. I knew he had been shown his last card and would make a full house.
I didn't have a flush, instead having 3 Aces. So I called. The last card came face down and, of course I checked, as did the mug. The cheat bet the pot. I looked at my hand and had not made a full house. I never even looked to see whether I had made a flush.
I passed. The mug called with a straight and the cheat showed his full house.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:31 am

So he was presumably in collusion with the dealer to know what the river card was going to be, I thought you were going to tell a story about these new poker AI programmes that now exist and are apparently really good at making accurate statistical calls as well as even bluffing so would presumably be the poker equivalent of a chess cheat. gambling always seems to bring out the worst in people, but at least they are actually taking that risk to make a tangible reward - in chess you get nothing beyond rating points, and meaningless online rating points at that.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Joseph Conlon
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joseph Conlon » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:53 am

So we have it that morally convincing arguments that someone is cheating go like this:

Chess - he is *not* a strong player; if he were a grandmaster his moves might be legitimate, but as it is the chance of him playing like that, unless he is cheating, is infinitesimal

Poker - he *is* a strong player; if he were a beginner these bets might be legitimate, but as it is the chance of him playing like that, unless he is cheating, is infinitesimal.

I am not saying these are wrong; I can imagine an external judge getting quite baffled by it though.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:52 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy_k0Tywpb4

talks about alleged cheating in a sudoku event by Eugene Varshavsky in Philadelphia, and goes on to mentions someone of the same name allegedly cheating in a World Open chess event in Philadelphia...

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:04 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:52 pm
and goes on to mentions someone of the same name allegedly cheating in a World Open chess event in Philadelphia...
That's some years ago

https://en.chessbase.com/post/cheating- ... world-open
https://www.chess.com/blog/Fins0905/eug ... onary-tale

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:08 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:04 pm
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:52 pm
and goes on to mentions someone of the same name allegedly cheating in a World Open chess event in Philadelphia...
That's some years ago

https://en.chessbase.com/post/cheating- ... world-open
https://www.chess.com/blog/Fins0905/eug ... onary-tale
Sounds like he was ahead of his time - way back in 2006! Wins over Smirin and Bartholomew too.

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